Over the weekend, AoM readers flooded my inbox with this article from the Wall Street Journal called “Where Have the Good Men Gone?” It was written by Kay S. Hymowitz, who recently published a book entitled Manning Up: How the Rise of Women Has Turned Men into Boys.
In the WSJ article, Ms. Hymowitz laments that there are no longer good men out there, just a bunch of overgrown man boys. She then gives the same tired reasons for why American men aren’t doing so well today: the economy, pop-culture, delayed marriage, video games, etc.
Personally, I’m getting tired of these “What’s wrong with men?” articles and books. I’ve lost count how many of them I’ve read over the past five years. I seriously have a bookshelf full of tomes on the subject. At first they were somewhat interesting–at least the place of men in society was being discussed and studied. But I feel like it’s just become an endless piling on. My biggest beef is that the authors typically don’t offer any solutions to the problem. Instead, they just pity these hapless men or laugh at them, but never try to help. Mostly because the solution–that men need to revive some of the lost virtues of manliness might seem sexist. The WSJ article says:
“What explains this puerile shallowness? I see it as an expression of our cultural uncertainty about the social role of men. It’s been an almost universal rule of civilization that girls became women simply by reaching physical maturity, but boys had to pass a test. They needed to demonstrate courage, physical prowess or mastery of the necessary skills. The goal was to prove their competence as protectors and providers. Today, however, with women moving ahead in our advanced economy, husbands and fathers are now optional, and the qualities of character men once needed to play their roles—fortitude, stoicism, courage, fidelity—are obsolete, even a little embarrassing.”
Those virtues are embarrassing? Embarrassing to whom? The truth is we need those virtues more than ever–they’re not just important in war and crisis, but in the every day decisions that we make, in how we lead our families, and build our communities.
These kinds of articles also always frame the issue in a way that makes all modern men seem like boobs, with the implication that all modern women are paragons of maturity and success (just look at the picture above that ran with the article!). Are men the only ones who need work? You would never see an article called, “Where Have All the Good Women Gone?”
Also, I have a feeling that these articles just perpetuate the low expectations that society has for young men today. The articles and books simply stereotype all men as loutish, clueless, neanderthals. If you want men to man up, we need to highlight the positive examples of masculinity in society and expect more from men instead of throwing up our hands and exclaiming “Men! What can you do?” How about an article on the fact that tens of thousands of men are extremely interested in bettering themselves these days? How about an article on the fact that while a lot of men grew up without a strong male mentor in their lives, and do in fact feel a little lost, they earnestly want to catch up on what they missed out on and are eager to become the best husbands, brothers, and citizens they can be?
At AoM, we recognize that many young men are struggling today, but instead of just talking about the problem, we’ve made it a goal to provide the tools, information, and inspiration men need to improve their lives. We’ve also made an effort to highlight positive examples of manliness.
I’m really proud of the AoM Community that has built up these past few years. It’s an army of men who are sick of low expectations and unfair stereotypes. If women are wondering where all the good men have gone, then they simply haven’t met the men who I interact with every single day. Honorable men who are doing their best and who are dedicated to living a manly and virtuous life.
Thank you for being positive examples of manliness and your efforts in reviving the lost art of manliness. I know with all our efforts, we can improve the lives of men everywhere.
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Hymowitz writes as if she’d never heard of the concept of rational hedonism.
She also fails to consider the fact that society’s elevated treatment of women is on the way out because it derives from anachronistic circumstances in which, due to disease, high rates of death due to childbirth, and widespread violence, women needed male protection, and high degrees of social pressure had to be directed to coerce men into marriage.
Her whole concept is out of touch. I think her article is more about her rather than about men. Virtually all of the women I have dated, and my current girl friend want REAL Men with traditional manly values. They are tired of wimps…. Most women realize that innately if not conscientiously.
I actually wrote an entire article before thinking maybe it’s not worth the bother. This author has based her literary career on the premise that gender roles have gone “crazy” in these “post-modern” times. It’s junk food journalism, based on little science and a lot of personal opinion.
Meh.
Well, I’m not a man but I agree with you 100%. I have good men around me and I have to shake my head and wonder where these authors are that they don’t have them too. Perhaps I’m blessed. Scratch that. I am blessed. However, I do think that all the “good men” are gone for any women who have their head too far up their own rump to notice.
I’m seeing this trend everywhere too. Commercials on TV are another major source of “men are idiots” nonsense. There was a recent laundry detergent commercial where dear old Dad is working in the backyard and has dirty hands. He sees his teenage daughter’s too-short skirt hanging on the line and decides to wipe his dirty hands on it. She carries it to mom who cleans it up for her and in the next scene she is prancing out of the house wearing the clean too-short skirt smugly passing Dad on her way. It annoys me to even think about it.
It’s coming from every angle. I’m just praying to raise my boys in a manner that they know that this message is crap. And I want my daughter to know differently too.
Feminist and not a man, but agree with you 99%. The only part I don’t agree with is that an article wouldn’t be written like this about women. I’ve read lots of articles like this about women (It’s just usually framed as women being gold digging sluts instead of being lazy slobs). People have said this woman’s article is “reversed” sexism, but it’s actually just the same old sexism. The author seems to think that advances in women’s social and economic status is largely to blame for men not being “real” men. What she’s doing here is 1) implying that women are responsible for the choices men make and 2) implying that men are less civilized than women. It’s sexist against men and women.
Just so you know I’m not bullshitting you about equally sexist articles about women, I present: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tracy-mcmillan/why-youre-not-married_b_822088.html?ref=fb&src=sp
I disagree, RW. That article from the Huffington Post is an extremely rare sort of piece which is why it has sparked a ton of conversation. It is also an entirely different kind of article than the kind I am addressing. That article talks about why some women who want to get married can’t find a spouse. It’s blunt relationship advice. The kind of article I am talking about says that men these days in general are useless and obsolete. Here are just a few that come to mind:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/20/why-we-need-to-reimagine-masculinity.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/13/entertainment/la-ca-louts-20110213
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/are_men_obsolete.html
I have never seen anything comparable in respected news magazines and newspapers. An article that suggested that women today were generally subpar and no longer had a role to play in modern society would never make it past an editor. I haven’t even seen any articles in respected new outlets on women being “gold diggers and sluts” either.
To answer Ms Hymowitz’ question, all you need to do is look at her facial expression. Who would want to come home to THAT?
I wrote about this on my blog. Basically, Conservative Women like Hymowitz don’t get it that women demand sexy, at the expense of everything else in men. OF COURSE fidelity, courage, endurance, etc. are embarrassing. Because they conflict with SEXY: dominant, polygamous (other women want/have him), charismatic, physical, etc.
Women can have sexy bad boys. Or they can have faithful (for the most part) husbands and fathers. They cannot have both and society is optimized for most women to have sex (if not commitment) from sexy bad boy Alphas at the expense of faithful husbands and fathers. The problem for most ordinary women comes at their thirties, when they can no longer get sustained sex from bad boy Alphas, and beta males won’t commit to them either (they’ve aged, had lots of men, have emotional baggage).
Well, too bad. You can’t have everything and sexy costs.
I am as tired as you are of hearing this everywhere I go. I think a large aspect of this problem is the low expectations that you mentioned.
I am a graduate student in forensic science and out of a class of 21, we have 5 males. The class before us had 1 male. It may be the field I am in, but I think there is a more general trend under the surface.
Sadly, when I was in elementary school, I honestly thought that girls were smarter than boys. How could I not? They are endlessly encouraged to do their best, get the high grades, set ambitious goals, and always beat the boys. Boys were just let alone to be boys.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not resent that women are being encouraged, but I think it is being done in a way that is detrimental to the other half of our society. It wasn’t until I got to college that I realized, I too could have success. Now I am in graduate school at the top of my class. I did it through self motivation, inspired by my memories of my grandfather, his generation, and with the help of a community like AoM.
Many of my close friend whom I grew up with were not so lucky. I have a friend who is a pretty smart guy, but he just works at the local Rite Aid. Never went to college. He gives the excuse that he just does not know what he wants to do. And no one cares to help guide him. I have several other friends who never bothered finishing their degrees. These young men are as smart or smarter than I am, but just no direction or place in society.
I managed to turn one of my friends around who is now trying to finish his degree and set his sites on pharmacy school. He gave up on the video games and partying that defines the rest of them in favor of building a life for himself. If only I could get through to more.
I’m in a wheelchair
To quote Dave Chappelle, “Chivalry is dead, and women killed it”.
The criticisms of men and males by Hymowitz and others are half right, I think. The demeaning of men and masculinity over the past 30 years has had consequences. One of the politically incorrect truths about the difference between the sexes is that males are more violent, and incompletely or poorly socialized males tend to be more destructively violent and socially pathological than females. In part, that’s what we’re seeing in today’s men. Feminists thought male courtesy and social rules were a form of exploitation of women. Actually, they were a way of keeping male aggression and other forms of social dysfunction constrained and productively channeled.
If women wanted to stop rape, they’d be identifying the women most at risk of rape, giving them firearms and training them in how to use them, and rewarding them for carrying them openly.
So women don’t really want to stop rape. They just want other people to stop rape for them.
In much the same way, women don’t really want to stop men from goofing off. They just want other people to make men stop goofing off for them.
Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words. No, Kate Hymowitz, WE don’t like YOUR behavior. so YOU should change just to suit OUR personal preferences.
I’ll also point out, now that I’ve got you nodding along, that men don’t really want to stop false rape accusations. Because if men really wanted to stop false rape accusations, they’d be identifying the men most at risk of false rape accusations, giving them digital recorders and training them in how to use them, and rewarding them for carrying them openly.
Hmm. I’m starting to wonder if there’s a general principle here that can be usefully applied to a lot of the sound and fury in the modern world’s media.
Whisky:
It is also true that men can have sexy women, but don’t expect her to have supper ready when you get home. The good girls who are faithful, can talk you about politics, raise children, cook, and all those things …..she is not what you would call sexy.
So, if you marry sexy bad girl, the one you never took home to meet your family, you can expect take out food, children without a clue, no one to talk to, and probably a divorce somewhere in there when you least need it.
jr
Jon Stock, you’re to be commended in helping your male friends. I am watching my brother as his marriage has ended, house and property divied up, searching to find his way. My father, a WWII veteran, doesn’t understand why my brother is floundering – and so many of my brother’s friends are in the same situation, lacking direction even in their late forties. I am trying to get my dad to talk more to my brother to provide some guidance, I just wish I had thought of that sooner. And it’s not just the men, I see it in the women around me too – wanting to eternally party and be young forever.
I can only speak for myself. While I was in college, I wasn’t a lout, but I was pretty clueless. I’ll own to still be a little clueless, and not a little hapless and feckless. However, in spite of that, in spite of my own native deficiencies, I want to change my life. I wanted to change it then, and have had some success at doing so; and I want to change it even more now.
I think you are right that if questions like “where have the good men gone?” are going to be asked, we had better also ask “where have the good women gone?” I encountered this problem while I was at college. In retrospect it was just as well that I didn’t get involved in any relationships while I was there, since I was unready for it and it probably would have resulted in pain and frustration for both parties. However, thinking back on it, there was a veritable dearth of good women, at least in my own experience on my own campus. Most women were utterly uninterested in me anyway; and the few ones that I would actually liked to have dated all had significant others or husbands. But even among the ones that were unattached, there were few that would have met my standards of a “good woman.”
This seemed to be a problem that went beyond just myself. I was an earnest, intelligent, chivalrous young man, albeit a little bit foolish and feckless, and yet no women ever paid me any attention that I could discern in the way of a relationship. And as I say, it was not just me either. I knew another fellow who was just as intelligent and earnest as I was, and also had the advantage of being driven, ambitious, and a lot more resilient than I. He got into a relationship with a girl which he thought would be a good one; she was smart, good-looking, likeable, and also possessed of ambition (at the time she was laying plans for graduate school in computer science). He was perfectly willing to commit to her. He would have been happy going wherever she went for graduate school, as his degree would have allowed him the opportunity of a job nearly anywhere.
And then after less than two weeks, she abruptly broke it off, claiming that she “wasn’t ready” for a serious relationship at that time (she had recently broken up with a boyfriend of long standing). Now it may be that she was just rebounding, and that she made an honest mistake and genuinely wasn’t ready to get back in the game. But she should have thought of that before she raised my friend’s expectations, especially as he was so willing to give her everything he could. My friend is sometimes not the best of men, and occasionally gets on my nerves, but he has an almost limitless amount of drive, ambition, and earnestness, and to see those virtues cast aside like they were nothing by that fool of a girl made me gnash my teeth in frustration born of sympathy, for if even a man like that, possessed of such virtues and also of confidence and charisma, is unable to find and keep a woman, then what hope had I?
Fortunately he has found a better woman, and last I heard they are still together, carving out a life for themselves. But I have dwelt enough of that branch of the discussion. The point I was working up to is, that if the question is “where have all the good men gone?”, then I have an answer: we are still around. We are there, oh women, if you are willing to bother looking for us. There are still honest, faithful, courageous, and resilient men in the world who will treat women with respect and do their best to look after them and provide for them. And some of us are even well built, strong, and handsome. We are not all of us perfect; I certainly am not. Many of us did not come by these qualities naturally, and some are still working at developing them. But we are working at developing them, which I think ought to count for something. I think that the next time I hear a woman complain about the bad quality of men, I will have to tell her, “If you have to complain, you’re looking in the wrong places,” since if she is saying such a thing to me, clearly we haven’t gone out.
And this is not, I should add, intended to absolve me or others for our lack of manly gumption in not asking women out on dates. We ought to do that more often, and I know that it is certainly a deficiency with me. But women can’t put all the blame on us for this one.
She doesn’t seem to base her views of men on reality but instead, she really just describes the projection of men that we all witness through popular media.
The Tim Taylor, Charlie Sheen, and Everyone Loves Raymond kind of characters do not further the attitudes people have about men in general. Women such as Ms Hymowitz exploit that image. I doubt she’d recognize a real man if she tripped over him.
As John Eldredge says in his book, Wild at Heart, “Where have all the good men gone? You’ve turned them into women.”.
I see a great deal I agree with here. I also see this point alluded to, but I want to buttress the point. I think men and women alike have been bombarded by dogmatic noise that is more about social reengineering than betterment. Women have been sold a bill of goods that says they can have it all and still be a Sex in The City like character. Men have been boxed into believing they should be more feminine and cry.
So what is my point? Stop listening to people like this Hymowitz and take some time to figure out who you are and what/who is important to you than live that out loud. To the women you can’t have it all. To the men- man up, stop apologizing for being a man and start speaking out by actions- God knows there is enough static floating around. Now that I have added to the static, I wish all of you continued growth and success.
Oorah! This article hit the nail on the head. I agree that the boys in this world need to man up quite a bit. Bending a little bit to help, or just to keep the peace is one thing, but an entirely different matter to just lay down and be walked on, and told how it’s your fault without standing up for yourself. It’s not wrong to show assertiveness or MANLINESS. After all, even our “President” feels that he has the right to beat his chest on occasion, and what in the hell has he got other than connections? Man up boys, they’re on our left and right, in front and back of us… They can’t escape now!
Amelia – I too know many men in the position of your brother, and one of them used to be me as well. Unfortunately it’s happening way too much. One of the ways that I got on track was through a local men’s group. Actually I’ve made that my mission in life to help other men find what they’re meant to do and become the men they can be. Please encourage your brother to look for a local men’s group – it could be a life saver for him too. Hope you get this. Cheers, Michael
Hmm, I think I see part of the problem right here:
“We are sick of hooking up with guys,” writes the comedian Julie Klausner, author of a touchingly funny 2010 book, “I Don’t Care About Your Band: What I Learned from Indie Rockers, Trust Funders, Pornographers, Felons, Faux-Sensitive Hipsters and Other Guys I’ve Dated.”
What part of this group sounds to you like they would make good dating material? And why are you “hooking up” instead of looking for the relationship you should be seeking?
Whiskey, there are plenty of strong, loyal men who are “Alphas”. There was an excellent article written by one of my brothers, unfortunately I can’t access it on this computer. Google “Wolves, sheep dogs and alpha males”, it should take you to his essay. It shows quite a bit about modern masculinity.
Hmmmmmm. They want the had boys…….they need work. And who is going to help them work on themselves. Why, little ole Tiffany. Frankensteins monster. Change. Hennell peck. Nope. Time to take a male contraceptive, and continually and over and over again try to procreate. Meanwhile, hire a surrogate with the proper genes and have your own progeny. A nanny tied to and paid for expectations beats a loud mouth, self–righteous beotch anytime. And by the time they are ready to get fat and demanding, off they go. Oh, yea. One more thing gentlemen. Now that they are equal no longer does the saying “women and children first”, apply. Everyone for themselves. Best
When my grandmother was a young girl the men never acted like horny toads to women. They might have wanted sex but they never out and said it.
I am not sure if any of the men that lived then could say that they were only looking for sex and not a good woman . I have been looking for a good man for 40 years, I found and married what I thought was a good man, only to find out it was a devil . I am not speaking of the sexual part of this creature but the mind of it. I did however find a wonderful man however that was short lived , he died just 6 months after. I suppose you can’t have what you need only what life will allow.
IT SHOULD BE MORE LIKE WHERE HAVE THE GOOD WOMEN GONE? TODAY WOMEN ARE SO DAMN NASTY TOO MEN NOWADAYS, AND HAVE THAT SHIT DON’T STINK OF AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM. JUST TOO MANY LOW LIFE WOMEN OUT THERE NOW.
ms. Kay Hymowitz is one lost, scared, over-educated, unloved, insecure little pos.
No wonder she thinks all the good men are gone. They are (for her); no real man would come near her poison mind.
Just found this site and have been browsing through ALL of it’s great content.
Just wanted to say what I personally felt about these articles that people are writing about the modern man and how his role is changing. Personally, I believe the role of man will never change. I believe that since the dawn of man, our role has pretty well been the same from the cave to the picket fence… now a woman is saying that because of the rise of women, men are becoming boys? …Seems to me that the media and North American culture over the past century has continued telling people what they should and shouldn’t be. Many women have listened. Many are obsessed with their looks and how they’re perceived, constantly comparing themselves to other women. Now the only thing we’re seeing with men, is that a number of them are starting to listen too.
I’ve never once compared myself to another man. You got big muscles? … Awesome bro. You know how to build an engine from scratch? … Awesome bro. I don’t have a shred of insecurity when it comes to men doing or being something I’m not. I’m proud of them, as a comrade. I don’t know how else to explain it. I see us all as one team – never opponents. Hell, we even have an unspoken code of conduct and rules among each other while we march through this game of life, which actually come out to about the equivalents of basketball. Don’t travel… know when to pass the ball, don’t double dribble…
I digress; All I’m getting at is that more and more men are falling prey to this media bit, and allowing themselves to be molded and told what they should be. Personally I’m not here out of an insecurity. I’m here because I feel it’s important that I learn to work with wood, repair things, and fight a bear with my bare hands if need be. I wager most of the rest of you are here for the same – not because you need to be what is considered a man, but because you already are and something inside you is craving the knowledge and skills you inherently destined for.
Best Regards,
T.F.
****Edit: you’re inherently destined for.
I think its natural for men to marry later in life and to marry younger women. We are naturally attracted to younger women because our instinctual brain says: “She will produce healthy babies.” Men’s brians don’t fully develop until they hit about 30 anyway. Women want protection from an older male typically.
I am in my 20s and I am living at home but I resent the fact that people think that means I am unambitious. I am saving money and using it for building up my business, in fact I am almost financially free. In a few months I will literally be able to retire… before I am 30. So what if I live it home? Also it pisses me off that that woman is citing a movie as if its real life. Knocked up is not a damn documentary.
I’m lucky. I married a woman who knows that we have our own responsibilities. Mine is to provide the income, and hers is to take care of the house.
it certainly should be much more like where have all the good women gone nowadays, especially that many of them are gay today.
it certainly should be much more like where have all the good women gone nowadays? especially that many of them are gay now.
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