in: Leisure, Living, Podcast

• Last updated: August 29, 2022

Podcast #829: The Bicycle as Freedom and Flight

No kid forgets getting his first bike, nor the surge of independence he felt the first time he pedaled away from his parents. And even as adults, the bike seems to give off a feeling of romance, of freedom, and, when you get going fast enough, even of flying.

The special allure of the bicycle can really be traced back to its simple yet elegant design, and my guest today will unpack the intriguing history of its creation. His name is Jody Rosen, and he’s the author of Two Wheels Good: The History and Mystery of the Bicycle. Today on the show, Jody explains the origins of the bicycle’s design, including how it was an anachronism at its birth, may have been inspired by a volcanic eruption, and helped liberate mankind from dependence on draft animals for transportation and exploration. We also get into how the bicycle was associated with flight right from the start. Along the way, we discuss how cycling represents an uncanny fusion of man and machine and produces a set of one-of-a-kind pleasures.

This episode will make you want to mount your trusty bicycle steed and take a ride.

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Read the Transcript

Brett McKay: Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of The Art of Manliness Podcast. No kid forgets getting his first bike, nor the surge of independence he felt the first time he pedaled away from his parents. And even as adults, the bike seems to give off a feeling of romance, of freedom, when you get going fast enough, even of flying. The special allure of the bicycle can really be traced back to its simple yet elegant design. My guest today will impact the intriguing history of its creation. His name is Jody Rosen, and he’s the author of Two Wheels Good: The History and Mystery of the Bicycle. Today in the show Jody explains the origins of the bicycle’s design, including how it was an anachronism at its birth, may have been inspired by a volcanic eruption, it helped liberate mankind from dependence on draft animals for transportation and exploration. We also get to know how the bicycle is associated with flight right from the start. Along the way we discuss how cycling represents an uncanny fusion of man and machine and produces a set of one of a kind pleasures. This episode will make you wanna mount your trusty bicycle seat and take a ride, after it’s over, check out the show notes at

Alright, Jody Rosen, welcome to the show.

Jody Rosen: Thanks so much, Brett. Glad to be here.

Brett McKay: So you’ve been an avid cyclist since childhood, you ride a bike for transports, how you get around, and you’ve never owned a car. And you got this book out called Two Wheels Good: The History and Mystery of the Bicycle. And this book it’s really wide ranging. It’s a cultural history of the bike, where you delve into different ways the bike has impacted our life from… You got politics, even how our physical landscape has been shaped. And also this book, it really seems like it’s a love letter to bikes. And I kind of wanna focus on that romance today. Because I’ve always noticed there’s this sort of allure around bikes like it’s something magical about them. Kids getting their first bike, you got Elliot, flying on his bike over the moon with ET. And I think a lot of this romance about the bike goes back to it’s design. It’s really simple. It’s like two wheels, you got handlebars. And because it’s so simple, I think a lot of people would think, “Well, man, some version of the bike has been around for a long time.” But they’re actually a relatively recent invention. So what was considered the first bicycle? And when was that made?

Jody Rosen: Yeah, so the first bicycle, which I guess you could kind of call it like a proto bicycle, arrived a little over 200 years ago. I guess, for a crunching number is 205 years ago, in 1817, in the Duchy of Baden, in the German Federation, in the city of Mannheim. So this is a bicycle that was invented by a minor German nobleman named Karl von Drais. And he called the thing the laufmaschine or the running machine. Now he called it that because this first bicycle had no pedals.

So it was a little bit like those… In fact very much like those balanced bicycles that you see little kids riding or kind of scooting along the ground in order to like learn to balance their bodies on the bike, it was a machine that had two wheels in a line, one in front of the other, that was the crucial breakthrough, the kind of crucial insight that Karl von Drais made that you could have a machine that worked like that with two wheels lined up in a row as opposed to on either side of an axle.

And he kind of linked those wheels with a saddle or a seat in between, but the device was propelled by this kind of scooting or ice skating motion where he… You literally ran your feet along the pavement to propel the thing. So in that way it was definitely different than the bicycle that we know today the kind of classic bicycle which has two wheels, but has chain drive and pedals. So this is a very much a first pass. So what’s curious, I think about it, as kind of important to take on board is the fact that the technology to build that thing had existed since the early Middle Ages but it took many many centuries of trial and error for humanity to arrive at a bicycle.

So, in a way, I say in the book, it kind of arrived illogically late. We think of the bicycle as something that could have been, should have been around forever since antiquity or whatever. But in fact, the bicycle when it arrived in 1817, we already… The steam locomotive had already been invented 15 years earlier. And then by the time we got like… The bicycle’s designed was kind of perfected in the 1870s, 1880s, the automotive age was daunting, so the bicycle is this kind of strange anachronism at birth.

Brett McKay: This Drais guy, why did he decide to design this thing? Was he just like, is it for fun? Or was there actually a… Did he have a practical purpose in mind?

Jody Rosen: Yeah, so he was a kind of a tinkerer and inventor. That’s what he did for fun or he viewed this as his kind of calling in life. I mean, he was, technically a forester. He had kind of a bureaucratic job but because of his aristocratic background… This was sort of a position where he drew a salary for not doing much work. And he really… What he really spent his time doing was dreaming up new machines. And he was pretty successful in his inventions I mean, he didn’t just invent a bicycle he invented like stenography machines and various other devices. So he’s a very clever guy.

But the context for the invention of the laufmaschine was… Well, for one thing he had been experimenting with devices of this sort, with transportation devices for some time. He had gotten it in his head that we needed a better means of moving across land, than either on foot or on some kind of a horse drawn vehicle. So he was seeking a replacement horse. And in the period that he invented this in 1816 was a tumultuous and important year. Now maybe largely forgotten, historically. But there was a a giant explosion of a volcano… Eruption of volcano on an Indonesian island in 1815. Which shot great quantities of volcanic ash up into the atmosphere. And that kind of ash cloud drifted west. So by the summer of 1816 you had a kind of a veil of volcanic ash literally dimming the sun. So this was known across the Western world, in Western Europe and the United States, as the year without a summer.

And so some historians have speculated that it was the fact that there were shortages of oats due to the terrible climatic conditions which was killing off horses, which turned Karl von Drais’s thoughts to the idea of a replacement horse because there were not as many horses around, and the horses in question were in bad shape. Also, it’s been speculated that because of the ice that was everywhere in Germany during that summer of 1816, he was seeing people ice skating around, and that might have spurred the idea for a machine, a wheeled device that you propel by using an ice skating motion. But this is just speculation. There’s no confirmation of exactly what the eureka moment was or what the pattern of thinking that led him to this thing was. We can just say that he’s a guy who liked to invent things and was very interested in the problem of transport.

Brett McKay: And so I think it’s interesting, this connection between the bike trying to be a replacement… A potential replacement for the horse. Since that time, the horse and the bike have been connected, oftentimes by companies use a horse as a logo for their bike, their bicycle.

Jody Rosen: Yeah, that’s right. That’s really like… Just to take it back, the bicycle was a solution to really an age-old problem, an age-old dream, which is this quest for a transport device that could help man travel, help mankind, humankind travel across land swiftly under their own power, that is as opposed to in some sort of cart or carriage that was pulled by a draft animal. And prior to the time of the bicycle, you had to hitch up some sort of wheeled contraption to a horse or a donkey or a dog, if you wanted to move swiftly across the land using any other means other than your own two feet. So yeah, the bicycle instantly was recognized by Drais and by others as a kind of replacement for the horse. And throughout its history in the 19th century, there was this kind of conflict between the bicycle and the horse, between people who were involved in industries that were horse-centric industries, everything from hackney carriage drivers to owners of stables to veterinarians to blacksmiths who made horseshoes.

People in these industries were threatened by the advent of the bicycle because it was seen as potentially, and not incorrectly, as something that would lead to the obsolescence or at least the diminishment of those horse industries. And there was a whole class component to this too because eventually, and once we got a bike that was a cheaper bike available to the masses, suddenly you had many, many millions more people who could afford a form of personal transport than you had in a period when people had to rely on, say, a hackney carriage because those were expensive. And so transport, prior to the arrival of the bicycle, land transport was really a class stratified. If you were rich, maybe you could travel around on a horse or in a horse-drawn carriage. If you weren’t, you were stuck going on foot.

Brett McKay: Well okay, but before the bike became democratized… And we’ll get to the talk about the safety bike. That was the big innovation. So this thing that Drais made, it got imported across Europe. And the first people that really took a hold of it were the elite, were sort of the aristocracy. They had the money and time to walk around on these things. And it caused sort of this early craze in the Regency Era, so it was like the early 19th century. They called it the velocipede. Tell us about this craze. What was going on? Who was riding these contraptions?

Jody Rosen: Yeah, that’s right. So Karl von Drais was kind of like a… He was a great promoter of his machine, and he tried to sort of spread the vogue for it across Europe. It first reached Paris, and then very quickly crossed the Channel. And as you say, there was kind of a big fad for it in Regency England, particularly among the elite. So among literal aristocrats and, more to the point, young fashion-conscious aristocrats who were kind of into the latest technology, so new weird devices. So yes, what they called the velocipede, which literally means swift. It’s from the Latin meaning “swift of foot,” so it was also called the swift walker. It had many nicknames, but notably, some of those nicknames were the dandy charger, the dandy horse. This is because it was associated with these dandies, with these very flamboyantly-dressed young, rich Englishmen who had the money to afford what were fairly expensive machines. And they were known to ride these things in kind of see-and-be-seen spots in London, particularly Hyde Park was a hotspot for velocipede riding. And even the Prince Regent, George, who was a famously dissolute character known for throwing lavish parties and stuff, he bought a bunch of these things and kept them at his crazy palace in the seashore city of Brighton.

So the velocipede very quickly, in England, developed a reputation as a kind of plaything of the rich. And as a result, there was a lot of animosity towards it, populist resentment towards it among the masses. It was viewed as another sign of the decadence of the monied classes. And so there was a big backlash, for that reason, against this machine. But the… Perhaps, even bigger reason for the backlash is these velocipedes, Drais’s device wasn’t really particularly well-engineered. In particular, it had problems with its brakes, so they were viewed as very dangerous. And this was the kind of very first iteration of a conflict, which we see to this day, over the right to the roadways. That is the bicycle, the velocipede in this case, was viewed from the start as a kind of illicit or illegitimate machine which was claiming space that didn’t belong to it, both on the roads themselves because that was thought to be the domain of horses and horse-drawn carriages and on the pavements, the sidewalks, which was considered the place where you walked on foot.

So bans were instituted very quickly after a kind craze for these things in… Particularly in the year 1819. By the time we get to 1820, there are bans imposed on velocipede riding in London. And when this same velocipede reached places in the United States, cities there imposed bans. There was even a ban instituted as far away as Calcutta. So, what we see there is the very beginning of a pattern that has continued throughout the history of the bicycle, which is these kind of like culture wars and conflicts over whether the bicycle is device that has a place on the road or should be marginalized and kept off the streets.

Brett McKay: Okay. So the velocipede is still had no pedals. When did, when were pedals added to the bike?

Jody Rosen: So basically the story of the bicycle’s development is a decades long story of kind of experimentation. And there are various inventors and engineers who had a role in this, but there’s kind of two major bike booms that or bike boomlets you might say that preceded the big bike boom of the 1890s. And in those cases, so in the kind of 1860s, you had a bicycle known as the boneshaker because it was, it had iron shot wheels and a wooden frame. And it was quite uncomfortable to ride particularly over flagstone pavements but this was a bike that had a direct drive so that the pedals were on the front wheel itself. And then in the 1870s, you had the invention of the iconic penny-farthing or high Wheeler bike. This is the, that famous crazy looking bicycle with a giant front wheel and a small rear wheel. Again, this is a direct drive device.

And the reason you had that huge wheel was because that created a gearing effect, because basically you needed that big front wheel, because it was a direct drive, ’cause you were peddling, you were using pedals that were directly attached to the hub of that front wheel, the bigger the wheel, the bigger the rotation you would get for each pedal stroke. And you would travel farther and faster because of that.

The issue with these earlier bicycle designs is that they’re unsafe. Again, they were like, if you’ve seen pictures, images of those, maybe even in real life you’ve seen one there are some around of those penny-farthings they are really tall. So they’re hard to mount. In fact, they were sort of at the height of a horse, that’s kind of why they were at that height. So it was difficult to mount in the first place. And once you got up there, because of that direct drive, huge front wheel, they were hazardous to ride. People were prone to kind of flying over the handlebar what was called in the period, taking a header. So you had lots of people, kind of riding along and then pitching over the handlebar and smashing their head on the pavement. So clearly this was… Those are beautiful looking things, but it wasn’t, it was still, we’re talking now 50 years after the invention of the laufmaschine and that we still had an imperfect bicycle.

Brett McKay: We’re gonna take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. And now back to the show and when did they add the chain? Like when did that happen?

Jody Rosen: So that was it was the late 1870s where we… Where the first designs for what came to be called the safety bicycle emerged. And then it was around 1885 that we had the first mass manufacturing of yes, what was called the safety bicycle. And of course it was called that because in contrast to the earlier types of bikes, it was safe. You had two wheels of at first close to equal size and then very quickly thereafter absolutely equal size wheels. You had a diamond shaped frame, the rear driven chain drive such that when you turn the pedals it was attached to the rear wheel and kind of drag that rear wheel forward. And then suddenly you could just use the front wheel simply to steer, which was a… Which is a much easier and better thought out system than the… That direct drive system. And so you had this kind of classical bicycle silhouette arriving in 1885, 18… Into the 1890s and crucially, you also had pneumatic rubber tires.

That is a tire which had a rubber inner tube filled with compressed air, which made a bicycle ride both much smoother and much faster. And this is not just the classic design, but kind of the unvarying design every bicycle we’ve that has come around ever since has more or less, the changes to that design has been basically ornamental. Suddenly in the late 1870s, early 1880s, you had a kind of a… Something close to a perfect device, finally the bicycle itself the true bicycle had arrived and that’s the bike that we recognize today.

Brett McKay: Yeah. And you had this chapter that I really enjoyed reading about, how the bike, is such a simple… It’s like a simple design. I mean, it’s just, like you said, it’s like diamond shape circles, but it’s very elegant and you kind of make this case that the bike is one of the greatest human designed objects ever. Like, what do you… What is it about the bicycle that you think it makes it so great?

Jody Rosen: Yeah. I mean, simplicity is definitely part of it. You know what I mean? A bicycle has very few functioning parts. You don’t need… You know what I mean, to build one, you need just a few things, unlike a car, right? Which it’s like, there’s so many, so many intricate parts you need, for instance, for an automobile. Well, bicycle you only… There’s only a few working parts that you need. And it’s kind of a great example of simplicity in design and kind of form follows function like a bicycle’s a very legible device. You can look at it and even a child can figure out like how this contraption works with just a little bit of like observation and maybe experimentation.

So there’s definitely a kind of austere beauty in its design. But I think that the crucial thing about the bicycle is the fact that it is a vehicle whose rider is both the passenger and the engine. So, it’s, one way of putting it is it’s almost less a vehicle than it is a prosthesis. When you ride a bike, you sort of merge your body with the bike you become, if you will, a component of the bike. So there’s that really that feeling you get on a particularly great ride where you, it’s almost uncanny feeling of being like one with the mechanism of the bike. And I think, it’s that uncanny quality of the bicycle. The fact that it’s a kind of machine-man hybrid, if you will. That makes it such a neat device and such a beautiful one.

Brett McKay: Yeah. I think that’s interesting because bike riding, you might fall down a little bit when you first learn how to ride a bike, but once you do it just seems like the most natural thing it’s like, well, humans were made to do this, but it… You think about it, like what goes on to ride a bike, you have to keep your balance. You have to pedal, you have to manage speed. It seems like, well, humans weren’t designed for this, but we somehow make it work.

Jody Rosen: Yeah, no, that’s right. I mean, I guess, there’s the expression, it’s just like riding a bike, by which we mean, once you learn to ride a bike famously, you never forget. If you’ve had some horrible brain trauma, that might be… That memory might be shaken out of your brain. But the fact is, the bicycle is… Learning to ride a bike is one of these examples of a kind of memory that… Or a kind of skill that you don’t need recourse to conscious thought, once you’ve learned to ride a bike, your body knows how to do it. And, I think this lies in the fact that like, the only thing you really need to learn, how to do when you ride a bike is, how to balance, how to keep… How to straddle the bike, and keep the thing from tipping over.

In fact, what you’re doing when you ride a bike is all the time, you’re totally unconsciously making tiny little minor adjustments in order to keep the thing up. But once you’ve mastered, to go back to that, the laufmaschine and the kind of the balance bike that those little kids learned to ride on. What we’ve realized is that, when you’re trying to teach a little kid to ride a bike, it’s best to start them on one of those balance bikes that have no pedals, as opposed to a regular pedal bike with training wheels, because what you need to learn in order to ride a bike is simply to balance the thing. It’s not pedaling, per se. So yeah, it’s a skill, that would seem to be something like a stunt, in a way it is a stunt but it’s a simple stunt to master. And that’s why, so many people around the world ride bikes, I mean, one thing that I say, right in the beginning of my book is the fact that the bicycle is kind of hidden in plain sight, it’s one of those things that we take for granted. And there are about one billion motor vehicles in the world, there are about two million bicycles, and I think that speaks to the fact that like, it’s an easy thing to master. Also, it’s cheap. So that helps.

Brett McKay: So besides being associated with the horse, the bicycle right away, like, especially in the 1890s got associated with mythology in flight. What was going on there?

Jody Rosen: Yeah, to go back to… I spoke a little bit about pneumatic rubber tire. There’s this kind of… People often say, when they’re on their bike, they feel like they’re flying, they feel like a bird or something like that. And that was definitely, rhetoric that was heard right from the get-go. The laufmaschine, the velocipede was compared to Pegasus, the flying stallion of Greek mythology. And then throughout the 19th century, people were always making analogies too between flying and bicycling. And with the arrival of pneumatic rubber tire, this kind of metaphor became almost literal, because when you ride a bike, you are kind of riding on air, that is the air that’s in the tires is literally holding you aloft. So you’re… The feeling of kind of skimming along like a bird is something that’s, in a way, actually happening when you ride a bike. But there are other interesting connections between flight, aviation and cycling, the both kind of dramatic of which is the fact that the Wright Brothers or Orville and Wilbur Wright, inventors of the airplane, were, of course, bicycle mechanics, and manufacturers.

And in order… When they were doing their experiments to… In their effort to invent a flying machine, an airplane, they used components straight out of their bicycle shop, they experimented some crucial breakthroughs that they made, kind of understanding the mechanics of flight were made because of the experiments they performed with bicycle wheels, and literally by riding around Dayton, Ohio, on their bikes. And the kind of most important insight that they gained in their attempt to figure out, how to work an airplane goes back to this question of balance, they realized that an airplane, like a bicycle could be an inherently unstable mechanism that relied on the ability of the pilot to balance the thing. So the aviation age is a kind of direct outcome of the age of cycling. So those kind of metaphors, that sort of dreamy metaphors about bicycles as flying machines, advertisements in the late 1890s, which famous advertisers that depicted bicycles kind of soaring through outer space. These metaphors were literalized by the Wright brothers.

Brett McKay: Yeah, I think that’s interesting. I mean, with the Wright brothers, they weren’t using theory to figure out flight, like there really wasn’t aerodynamic theory yet, really. And so they were just kind of use it… They were like, figuring out flight through same way you ride a bicycle, it’s just you figure out the balance, and then you kind of intuitively make adjustments on the fly.

Jody Rosen: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, and if you think about the Wright Brothers’ early plane, I mean, it’s not… It’s not a jumbo jet. It’s like a one-man thing. So it’s really, it’s not even that different in the way it looks than a bicycle I mean you kind of have like a guy sitting on a saddle, you know what I mean, flying that thing. And also in this period there were… Particularly in the period of the 1890s, when suddenly bicycles were everywhere and there were millions of bikes everywhere and kind of, especially in the West, in Western Europe, and in the United States, there was this just mass obsession with the bicycle. There were all kinds of ideas, visions for bicycle-like flying devices, people were constantly patenting various types of bicycle airship hybrids, none of which got off the ground. Nowadays, we have machines that are like that kind of, pedal powered flying machines of various sorts. But the link that the Wright Brothers made was one that would seem, that was sort of intuitive to people in this period.

Brett McKay: Okay, So in the 1890s, the safety bicycles invented, there’s this huge boom in bicycles in Europe, in the United States. It represents this new form of democratic man-powered mobility. People thought of it as a less expensive horse that never needed to be fed. And it brought not only a new way to travel the roads, but also a new way to explore the wilds, the wilderness. So who was the first guy that thought, “You know what, what I really need is a bicycle. I wanna take my bicycle, and I wanna ride it down this rocky mountain.” Just how did the mountain bike come about?

Jody Rosen: Well the impulse to ride bikes up mountains existed right from the get-go or at least as soon as we got, had pedal driven bikes. There are famous travel logs, in the 19th century, written by people who like… There’s one written by a guy named Thomas Stevens, who rode his penny-farthing like literally around the world, I mean of course, he didn’t ride it over the oceans, he took ships, but he used his penny-farthing to ride up mountain ranges all over Asia and Europe, and the United States. People pedaled over the Alps in the 19th century on these bikes. So there were people using bicycles on mountains for some time, but it was really in the late ’60s and early ’70s, that various cultures of mountain cycling developed, particularly in the San Francisco Bay area, where a group of people who called themselves… A kind of collective who called themselves repack, kinda souped-up these old Schwinn bikes, put much bigger tires on them, messed around with the gearing systems and created bikes which as you say, you could use to like bomb up and crucially down mountains, and kind of go off-roading.

And eventually these things were mass manufactured and marketed to… Far and wide, such that they’re… Not only has mountain biking become a huge recreational pastime for millions of people, but also people who just simply use mountain bikes to get around town, because they have these great suspensions, are nicely engineered machines. But yeah, it’s funny that mountain… The impulse to kind of use a bicycle, not just to kind of like cruise around, cruise around town, just to get around but really to challenge your… Push your body to its physical limit, to climb high peaks and then to brave steep descents is something that’s been with us for a long time and is a big feature of cycling culture.

Brett McKay: So I’ll admit that… Well, I had a bike when I was a kid. I have a bike now, but I don’t really use it as much. For me, it feels uncomfortable, unnatural, hurts my butt. How might you make the case for a grown-up to rediscover the pleasures of biking?

Jody Rosen: Oh man, I mean like… All I can say is it is… You know it’s… To me the only thing better than riding a bicycle is sex. I’m gonna be blunt about it. Alright, you know what I mean? And riding a bicycle with your wife on her bicycle next to you is really fun. It’s really fun too. No, it’s like it’s an intensely, physically pleasurable thing to ride a bike. It’s a great way to go about your business and get around. You kind of interact with the world in a different way when you’re on your bicycle. You move at a pace that’s neither too fast nor too slow, so you can kind of soak in the panorama in a way that you can’t when you’re walking or in a car, and interact with your environment in a way.

So it’s an intensely pleasurable bike for me, like sensual, emotional and even intellectual experience. Like I think better when I’m on my bike. I’m a writer, so like you know, like, I’m a journalist, so sometimes when I get stuck on something, have writer’s block or whatever, and I need to kinda clear the cobwebs out, I’ll just jump on my bike and ride around town for a little bit. And it has that effect for me. But yeah, I mean, I guess the other thing I’d say is simply convenience. It’s just like we all spend our time, particularly for commuters, car commuters or on public transportation kinda moving slowly stuck in traffic, whatever and once you start riding a bike, you realize what a pleasure it is to get around town and how relatively quicker you can get where you’re going. So that’s just the start of my case. Let’s put it that way.

Brett McKay: Well, Jody, this has been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?

Jody Rosen: Well, you can go to Google, and if you enter my name J-O-D-Y R-O-S-E-N, you’ll find some articles I’ve written over the years for the New York Times. That’s my main gig. But you could also go to my website, And certainly you can find my book, Two Wheels Good, at any bookstore or any online purveyor of books.

Brett McKay: Fantastic. Well Jody Rosen, thanks for your time. It’s been a pleasure.

Jody Rosen: Thanks so much, I’ve had a great time, Brett.

Brett McKay: My guest who is Jody Rosen. He’s the author of the book, Two Wheels Good, it’s available on Also check out his website, Where you can find more information about his work. Also check out our show notes at, where you can find links to resources and we delve deeper into this topic.

Well, that wraps up another edition of The AOM podcast. Make sure to check out our website at where you can find our podcast archives as well as thousands of articles written over the years about pretty much anything you can think of. And if you’d like to enjoy ad-free episodes of The AOM podcast, you can do so on Stitcher premium, head over to, sign up, use code manliness at check out for a free month trial. Once you’re signed up, download the Stitcher app on Android or iOS and you can start enjoying ad free episodes of the AOM podcast, and if you haven’t done so already, I’d appreciate if you take one minute to give us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps out a lot. If you’ve done that already, thank you. Please consider sharing this show with a friend or family member, who you think will get something out of it. As always, thank you for the continued support. Until next time this is Brett McKay, reminding you you to not only listen to The AOM Podcast, but put what you’ve heard into action.


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