{"id":113999,"date":"2020-08-03T11:09:12","date_gmt":"2020-08-03T16:09:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/?p=113999"},"modified":"2026-09-12T20:06:35","modified_gmt":"2026-09-13T01:06:35","slug":"shallows-nicholas-carr-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"Podcast #632: How the Internet Makes Our Minds Shallow"},"content":{"rendered":"

Have you found it harder and harder to sit with a good book for long periods of time without getting that itch to check your phone? Well, you’re not alone. My guest today makes the case that the internet has changed our brains in ways that make deep, focused thinking harder and harder.<\/p>\n

His name is Nicholas Carr<\/a>, and he documented what was then a newly-emerging phenomenon ten years ago in his book The Shallows: What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains<\/em><\/a>. The Shallows<\/em> has now been re-released with a new afterword, and Nick and I begin our conversation with how he thinks the effect of digital technology on our minds has or hasn’t changed over the last decade. We then discuss the idea of the medium being the message when it comes to the internet, and how this particular medium changes our brains and the ways we think and approach knowledge and the world. Nick then explains how we read texts on screens differently than texts in books, why hyperlinks mess with our ability for comprehension, why it’s still important to develop our own memory bank of knowledge even in a time when we can access facts from an outsourced digital brain, and how social media amplifies our craving for the fast and easy-to-digest over the slow and contemplative. We end our conversation with how Nick himself has tried to strike a balance in keeping the advantages of the internet while mitigating its downsides. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Have you found it harder and harder to sit with a good book for long periods of time without getting that itch to check your phone? Well, you’re not alone. My guest today makes the case that the internet has changed our brains in ways that make deep, focused thinking harder and harder. His name is Nicholas […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":28,"featured_media":195048,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[502,156,42388],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-113999","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character","category-podcast","category-self-improvement"],"featured_image_urls":{"large":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632-538x280.png","medium_large":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632-768x432.png","aom":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632-372x230.png","reactor-320":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632-320x180.png","reactor-640":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632-640x360.png"},"yoast_head":"\nHow the Internet Changes Your Brain | Art of Manliness<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Have you found it harder and\u00a0harder to sit with a good book for long periods of time without getting that\u00a0itch to check your phone? Well, you're not alone.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Podcast #632: How the Internet Makes Our Minds Shallow | The Art of Manliness\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Have you found it harder and\u00a0harder to sit with a good book for long periods of time without getting that\u00a0itch to check your phone? Well, you're not alone.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Art of Manliness\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"http:\/\/facebook.com\/artofmanliness\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2020-08-03T16:09:12+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-09-13T01:06:35+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1280\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"720\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"AoM Team\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@artofmanliness\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@artofmanliness\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"AoM Team\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"2 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"AoM Team\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/28ff38880a7c6995e23ac063aaaa81d4\"},\"headline\":\"Podcast #632: How the Internet Makes Our Minds Shallow\",\"datePublished\":\"2020-08-03T16:09:12+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-09-13T01:06:35+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":265,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2020\\\/08\\\/632.png\",\"articleSection\":[\"Character\",\"Podcast\",\"Self-Improvement\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"copyrightYear\":\"2020\",\"copyrightHolder\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#organization\"}},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/\",\"name\":\"How the Internet Changes Your Brain | Art of Manliness\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2020\\\/08\\\/632.png\",\"datePublished\":\"2020-08-03T16:09:12+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-09-13T01:06:35+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/28ff38880a7c6995e23ac063aaaa81d4\"},\"description\":\"Have you found it harder and\u00a0harder to sit with a good book for long periods of time without getting that\u00a0itch to check your phone? Well, you're not alone.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2020\\\/08\\\/632.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2020\\\/08\\\/632.png\",\"width\":1280,\"height\":720},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Podcast #632: How the Internet Makes Our Minds Shallow\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/\",\"name\":\"The Art of Manliness\",\"description\":\"Men's Interest and Lifestyle\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/28ff38880a7c6995e23ac063aaaa81d4\",\"name\":\"AoM Team\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/author\\\/aom-team\\\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO Premium plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"How the Internet Changes Your Brain | Art of Manliness","description":"Have you found it harder and\u00a0harder to sit with a good book for long periods of time without getting that\u00a0itch to check your phone? Well, you're not alone.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Podcast #632: How the Internet Makes Our Minds Shallow | The Art of Manliness","og_description":"Have you found it harder and\u00a0harder to sit with a good book for long periods of time without getting that\u00a0itch to check your phone? Well, you're not alone.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/","og_site_name":"The Art of Manliness","article_publisher":"http:\/\/facebook.com\/artofmanliness","article_published_time":"2020-08-03T16:09:12+00:00","article_modified_time":"2026-09-13T01:06:35+00:00","og_image":[{"width":1280,"height":720,"url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632.png","type":"image\/png"}],"author":"AoM Team","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@artofmanliness","twitter_site":"@artofmanliness","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"AoM Team","Est. reading time":"2 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/"},"author":{"name":"AoM Team","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#\/schema\/person\/28ff38880a7c6995e23ac063aaaa81d4"},"headline":"Podcast #632: How the Internet Makes Our Minds Shallow","datePublished":"2020-08-03T16:09:12+00:00","dateModified":"2026-09-13T01:06:35+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/"},"wordCount":265,"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632.png","articleSection":["Character","Podcast","Self-Improvement"],"inLanguage":"en-US","copyrightYear":"2020","copyrightHolder":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#organization"}},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/","url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/","name":"How the Internet Changes Your Brain | Art of Manliness","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632.png","datePublished":"2020-08-03T16:09:12+00:00","dateModified":"2026-09-13T01:06:35+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#\/schema\/person\/28ff38880a7c6995e23ac063aaaa81d4"},"description":"Have you found it harder and\u00a0harder to sit with a good book for long periods of time without getting that\u00a0itch to check your phone? Well, you're not alone.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/08\/632.png","width":1280,"height":720},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/shallows-nicholas-carr-interview\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Podcast #632: How the Internet Makes Our Minds Shallow"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/","name":"The Art of Manliness","description":"Men's Interest and Lifestyle","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#\/schema\/person\/28ff38880a7c6995e23ac063aaaa81d4","name":"AoM Team","url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/author\/aom-team\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/113999","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/28"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=113999"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/113999\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/195048"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=113999"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=113999"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=113999"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}