{"id":102772,"date":"2019-04-10T14:01:09","date_gmt":"2019-04-10T19:01:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/?p=102772"},"modified":"2026-09-28T12:40:42","modified_gmt":"2026-09-28T17:40:42","slug":"tommy-caldwell-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"Podcast #498: Lessons in Persistence From Climber Tommy Caldwell"},"content":{"rendered":"

On El Capitan in Yosemite National Park, there was a wall that had never been climbed, and that some said would never be climbed. It\u2019s called the Dawn Wall.<\/p>\n

But in 2015, Tommy Caldwell<\/a> along with Kevin Jorgeson became the first to free climb it. That journey was then made into an award-winning film called Dawn Wall<\/em><\/a>. <\/p>\n

Today I speak to Tommy about what led up to that historic climb, starting from how he got involved in rock climbing in his childhood. We begin our conversation discussing the different types of rock climbing and why people often misinterpret what “free climbing” means. We then dig into Tommy\u2019s climbing career, including his early success in sport climbing and the harrowing experience of being held hostage by and escaping from rebels in Kyrgyzstan. We then discuss how Tommy responded to losing a finger and getting divorced, and why he decided to climb the Dawn Wall. We end our conversation discussing the years-long process of preparing for the climb and the virtue of what Tommy calls \u201celective suffering.\u201d <\/p>\n

There are a lot of little, potent lessons here in how to remain persistent and driven in the face of setbacks that apply beyond climbing to every aspect of life. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

On El Capitan in Yosemite National Park, there was a wall that had never been climbed, and that some said would never be climbed. It\u2019s called the Dawn Wall. But in 2015, Tommy Caldwell along with Kevin Jorgeson became the first to free climb it. That journey was then made into an award-winning film called […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":195358,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[502,156,42388],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-102772","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character","category-podcast","category-self-improvement"],"featured_image_urls":{"large":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498-538x280.png","medium_large":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498-768x432.png","aom":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498-372x230.png","reactor-320":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498-320x180.png","reactor-640":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498-640x360.png"},"yoast_head":"\nTommy Caldwell Interview \u2014\u00a0Lessons in Persistence | Art of Manliness<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"My interview with Tommy includes potent lessons in how to remain persistent and driven in the face of setbacks which can be applied beyond just climbing.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Podcast #498: Lessons in Persistence From Climber Tommy Caldwell | The Art of Manliness\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"My interview with Tommy includes potent lessons in how to remain persistent and driven in the face of setbacks which can be applied beyond just climbing.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Art of Manliness\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"http:\/\/facebook.com\/artofmanliness\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2019-04-10T19:01:09+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-09-28T17:40:42+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1280\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"720\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Brett\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@artofmanliness\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@artofmanliness\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Brett\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"2 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Brett\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/84a51044fb965564cde35d18f7e0a832\"},\"headline\":\"Podcast #498: Lessons in Persistence From Climber Tommy Caldwell\",\"datePublished\":\"2019-04-10T19:01:09+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-09-28T17:40:42+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":217,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2019\\\/04\\\/498.png\",\"articleSection\":[\"Character\",\"Podcast\",\"Self-Improvement\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"copyrightYear\":\"2019\",\"copyrightHolder\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#organization\"}},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/\",\"name\":\"Tommy Caldwell Interview \u2014\u00a0Lessons in Persistence | Art of Manliness\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2019\\\/04\\\/498.png\",\"datePublished\":\"2019-04-10T19:01:09+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-09-28T17:40:42+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/84a51044fb965564cde35d18f7e0a832\"},\"description\":\"My interview with Tommy includes potent lessons in how to remain persistent and driven in the face of setbacks which can be applied beyond just climbing.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2019\\\/04\\\/498.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2019\\\/04\\\/498.png\",\"width\":1280,\"height\":720},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/character\\\/self-improvement\\\/tommy-caldwell-interview\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Podcast #498: Lessons in Persistence From Climber Tommy Caldwell\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/\",\"name\":\"The Art of Manliness\",\"description\":\"Men's Interest and Lifestyle\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/84a51044fb965564cde35d18f7e0a832\",\"name\":\"Brett\",\"sameAs\":[\"http:\\\/\\\/artofmanliness.com\"],\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.artofmanliness.com\\\/author\\\/brett\\\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO Premium plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Tommy Caldwell Interview \u2014\u00a0Lessons in Persistence | Art of Manliness","description":"My interview with Tommy includes potent lessons in how to remain persistent and driven in the face of setbacks which can be applied beyond just climbing.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Podcast #498: Lessons in Persistence From Climber Tommy Caldwell | The Art of Manliness","og_description":"My interview with Tommy includes potent lessons in how to remain persistent and driven in the face of setbacks which can be applied beyond just climbing.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/","og_site_name":"The Art of Manliness","article_publisher":"http:\/\/facebook.com\/artofmanliness","article_published_time":"2019-04-10T19:01:09+00:00","article_modified_time":"2026-09-28T17:40:42+00:00","og_image":[{"width":1280,"height":720,"url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498.png","type":"image\/png"}],"author":"Brett","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@artofmanliness","twitter_site":"@artofmanliness","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Brett","Est. reading time":"2 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/"},"author":{"name":"Brett","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#\/schema\/person\/84a51044fb965564cde35d18f7e0a832"},"headline":"Podcast #498: Lessons in Persistence From Climber Tommy Caldwell","datePublished":"2019-04-10T19:01:09+00:00","dateModified":"2026-09-28T17:40:42+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/"},"wordCount":217,"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498.png","articleSection":["Character","Podcast","Self-Improvement"],"inLanguage":"en-US","copyrightYear":"2019","copyrightHolder":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#organization"}},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/","url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/","name":"Tommy Caldwell Interview \u2014\u00a0Lessons in Persistence | Art of Manliness","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498.png","datePublished":"2019-04-10T19:01:09+00:00","dateModified":"2026-09-28T17:40:42+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#\/schema\/person\/84a51044fb965564cde35d18f7e0a832"},"description":"My interview with Tommy includes potent lessons in how to remain persistent and driven in the face of setbacks which can be applied beyond just climbing.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/04\/498.png","width":1280,"height":720},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/tommy-caldwell-interview\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Podcast #498: Lessons in Persistence From Climber Tommy Caldwell"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/","name":"The Art of Manliness","description":"Men's Interest and Lifestyle","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/#\/schema\/person\/84a51044fb965564cde35d18f7e0a832","name":"Brett","sameAs":["http:\/\/artofmanliness.com"],"url":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/author\/brett\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/102772","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=102772"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/102772\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/195358"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=102772"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=102772"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=102772"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}