| July 20, 2015

Last updated: December 7, 2017

Fitness, Health & Sports, Podcast

Podcast #123: StrongFirst & Kettlebell Training With Eric Frohardt

If you’ve been reading the site for awhile, you’re likely familiar with Eric Frohardt. He’s the former U.S. Navy SEAL who taught us how to pull an all-nighter like a special forces operator, as well as the ins and outs of the tactical order of dressing. Currently, Eric serves as the CEO of StrongFirst, a company dedicated to helping individuals become stronger physically and mentally. StrongFirst was founded by Pavel Tsatsouline, the father of kettlebell training here in the U.S.

Show Highlights

  • Why strength is a skill
  • How Pavel Tsatsouline popularized the kettlebell in the U.S.
  • The benefits of kettlebell training
  • The barriers that get in the way of people becoming physically stronger
  • What “greasing the groove” is and how it can make you stronger
  • And much more!

kettlebell simple and sinister pavel

If you’ve been curious about kettlebell training, head over to StrongFirst. Lots of great information there. For detailed instructions on how to perform the swings and for kettlebell programming, pick up a copy of Simple and Sinister or Enter the Kettlebell. Simple and Sinister in particular is, as part of the name suggests, a very accessible and yet effective workout program that only requires a kettlebell to perform! (There’s also an advanced program for those who like to keep their workouts sinister.)

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Special thanks to Keelan O’Hara for editing the podcast!

Transcript

Brett McKay: Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness Podcast. For the past ten years or so, kettle bells have become a popular workout tool. If you don’t know what a kettle bell is, it’s basically like a cannonball with a handle on it and you swing it around and it gives you not only a strength workout but a cardio workout. The man who had a lot to do with the popularization of kettle bell training here in the United States, his name is Pavel Tsatsouline, and Pavel started a company not too long ago called Strong First, which is dedicated to helping people become strong in all aspects of their life using not only kettle bells but bar bells and body weight training. Anyways, today on the show I have the CEO of Strong First on with me.

His name is Eric Frohardt, he’s a former US Navy Seal, a decorated combat veteran with multiple tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, and today on the show we’re going to talk kettle bell training, becoming strong not just physically but mentally, and why strength is a skill. It’s going to be a great podcast, a lot of great takeaways, so let’s do this.

Eric Frohardt, welcome to the show.

Eric Frohardt: Thank you Brett, appreciate it.

Brett McKay: You are the CEO of a company called Strong First. What is Strong First and what’s the story behind it for our listeners who aren’t familiar with it?

Eric Frohardt: Well, Strong First is the school of strength and I’ll get into that a little bit more later. The story behind Strong First is pretty interesting. Pavel Tsatsouline, our founder and chairman, started the some people call it the kettle bell revolution, or movement, back in the early 2000s. He brought the kettle bell over to the US and did some articles in some different magazines about it. It kind of caught on. He partnered with a publishing company based in Minneapolis and wrote a few books and launched the first kind of global kettle bell instructor certification known as the RKC. At some point, I believe it was 2011, 2012, due to some differences in the vision, he left that organization which he kind of co-founded, or founded, or was organized in, and as he left he formed Strong First. I believe that was in 2012. Many of the people who he had chosen as senior instructors, or master instructors, or even team leader instructors within that organization kind of followed and joined Strong First with him.

Brett McKay: There’s that. Tell us more about Pavel because he’s an interesting guy. He’s from Russia, what’s his background? It was something with the KGB or the Russian military or?

Eric Frohardt: Yeah, it’s the Spetznaz.

Brett McKay: The Spetznaz, yeah that’s right.

Eric Frohardt: Yeah. Their version of the special operations forces. He’s not very open about that.

Brett McKay: Sure.

Eric Frohardt:  Part of his history, so … Pavel’s a very, you know. He’s a very private guy.

Brett McKay: Understandable. I am too.

Eric Frohardt: Right.

Brett McKay: I mean, so I think it’s one of the things I find fascinating is the the Russian …

Eric Frohardt: Yeah.

Brett McKay: Mentality towards physical fitness, because during the 70s, during the cold war, they were doing some crazy stuff, experimentation on basically improving human performance that we sort of take for granted nowadays. Does that sort of the research, and this Russian approach pervade Strong First a bit? Or is it you’re taking, you’re building off of that and adding …

Eric Frohardt: Yeah.

Brett McKay: The new research that’s come in?

Eric Frohardt: It’s a mixture of both, Brett. Yeah, there’s underpinnings in that system and Pavel, people forget he was a master of sports there and there has to do with a certain level within the state of their fitness. I’m not sure how to best describe that. He does a very good job of taking the complicated science and making it simple. There’s his recent book, Kettle Bell Simple and Sinister. It seems extremely simple and it is, it’s very effective, but he basically distilled down a lot of science from that and made it a little more digestible.

On the higher end of the spectrum, he’s got a, we have an event called Plan Strong, and in that course it’s like a, it’s almost a two day course. He goes through very, very detailed programming methodologies or programs for making for people to use to get really strong on certain depths.

Brett McKay: Gotcha.

Eric Frohardt: Very, very, very, very intelligent guy.

Brett McKay: Yeah, super knowledgeable. Tell us about your story and how did you get involved with Strong First?

Eric Frohardt: Absolutely. Well I was introduced to Pavel’s methods back in 2005. A close friend of mine, a teammate of mine named John Faz showed me his kettle bell and John and I were Seals together serving at the same Seal team at the time. John was a very close friend of Pavel’s, in fact Pavel trained John as a high schooler and later on once John kind of had aspirations of becoming a Navy Seal he found Pavel through a magazine article. Pavel was teaching people some kettle bell training methods in Minneapolis. I met John, and I saw him doing his kettle bell exercises, and I just was at least I was very curious because I was kind of sick of the standard lift weights one day, cardio the next day kind of thing. I kind of was just burnt out. I spent some time using Pavel’s principles of strength with primarily with kettle bells, and some bar bell stuff, and some body weight exercises, but primarily kettle bells. I just liked the simplicity of it.

I did that for a few years, actually the first time I did it just for a few months right before deployment and was completely shocked at how much better that tool and those methods prepared me for combat tours or as I like to say various adventures. It just, for the first time I just felt like the gear I was wearing felt light and I felt like I moved well and I felt really strong and I didn’t get bigger while doing it. I had done a lot of strength training stuff in the past, but didn’t like bulking up with it. Fast forward from there, I met Pavel when he came to our team one time and trained us. Really enjoyed meeting him. A few, a year after that I got certified and later after that I got certified through Strong First, re-certified through Strong First when he moved.

I really love training, I love the way it made me feel and perform and I would never have taken this gig if I wasn’t a big believer in it. In 2014, Pavel hit me up on email and he asked me to help look for a new CEO. At the time I was working at the Blucore shooting center which is a firearms range, retail, and training facility that I co-founded here in Denver. During one of my daily walks, which I’ve seen you write about many, many times, I was just kind of thinking about my future and my plans and stuff, and it just kind of hit me that I should apply for that gig.

Brett McKay: Yeah.

Eric Frohardt: After kind of a lengthy interview process I was fortunate enough to be selected as the new CEO for Strong First. I stepped down from the day to day at Blucore and now I’m the CEO of Strong First. It’s been really, really fun. Challenging and rewarding. I did fail to mention that John Faz, my best friend or one of my best friends in the Navy and the guy that Pavel trained, and he’s been mentioned in a few of Pavel’s books, but John was actually was killed in that helicopter crash in 2011. That’s kind of how Pavel and I met, and how we’ve stayed in contact and how I took this gig.

Brett McKay: You’ve also helped us out on the Art of Manliness consulting on some articles.

Eric Frohardt: Yeah.

Brett McKay: We did the how to pull an all night-er from a special force guy, which you are. Which is, it’s funny. Whenever it’s like finals time, like December, there’s like this uptick of people checking that post out. How to pull an all night-er.

Eric Frohardt: Yeah.

Brett McKay: Then the tactical way of dressing.

Eric Frohardt: Yeah.

Brett McKay: Which is a lot of fun. If you guys haven’t seen those go Google those, search that on the site. Let’s talk about Strong First. Why the name Strong First and the philosophy behind that underlies the exercises that you all teach?

Eric Frohardt: Yeah, no I’ll just kind of start with our mission. We want to make the world a stronger place. We want to make people stronger. Instead of a war against obesity, we have a war against weakness, right?

Brett McKay: I like that.

Eric Frohardt: We are, what we are is we’re a school of strength. We help people achieve high levels of strength in a safe, efficient, and effective manner. This is important. Without interfering with their lives, their jobs, or their duties. That was important to me when I was a Seal that the training I did didn’t hurt me or me or my ability to perform my duty. It’s important to fireman, policemen, law enforcement, whatever, like military, law enforcement, first responders. It’s important that your training makes you stronger, yet not interferes with what you’re trying to do. We believe that strength is a master quality, in other words getting stronger helps all other physical endeavors. We believe that strength has a greater purpose. Strength in the gym is really cool, but strength for real life applications is more important. That can be as simple or as cool as a Navy Seal getting stronger for a mission, or more realistic but in my opinion just as cool as having someone who used to be deconditioned or weak who can now do chores around the house and pick up luggage in the airport and just actually feel strong and be strong.

That’s who we are, we are Strong First, but not strong only. As mentioned earlier, we believe strength is important, it’s a master quality and that having high levels of strength will improve all other physical attributes. Whether it’s mobility, flexibility, agility, all those coordinational, work capacity, there’s a number of them. Being strong will help you in all of those. It’ll also help you be from being a dancer to playing football. Distance running to power lifting. Yoga to MMA. People get stronger, they can just watch themselves improve. We have a saying we want people to be what you want. As I mentioned it could be a football player, a dancer, a runner, a power lifter, fighter, whatever. Be whatever you want, but be Strong First. We don’t diminish any of the other physical qualities, right? If you ever attend any of our events, our certs or our courses, you’ll notice we spend time working on mobility, flexibility, and discussing conditioning, but we’ve chosen not to be all things to all people. Our niche is strength training and being strong is timeless.

Brett McKay: How do you make people stronger? You mentioned the kettle bell. There seems like there’s an emphasis on the kettle bell. What’s so great about the little cannonball thing with the handle on it?

Eric Frohardt: There’s a lot of different things. We have a principle based system, and our principles are time honored, battle tested, and proven. These principles help people achieve high levels of strength. We focus on being safe, efficient, and effective with all of our training. In fact, we don’t call it training we call it practice because strength is a skill. That is an example of one of our principles. Strength is a skill.

Brett McKay: I love that, I love that idea that strength is a skill. That is really cool.

Eric Frohardt: It’s really, it’s a really important, it’s one of our most important principles and it’s just … We use that and many other principles and we have different tools. Obviously we’re most known for the kettle bell, but we have bar bell and body weight courses and certifications as well. Certainly as I mentioned we’re most known for the kettle bell, but our principles are the same in all the different certs and events. There are some things that are interesting about the kettle bell and the obvious emphasis is that the whole kettle bell revolution was started by Pavel. As I mentioned he introduced it to western culture in the early 2000s, and since then he’s been building and refining our curriculum into what it is today. Simply put, the kettle bell is just very efficient and effective. It’s also very safe if the exercises are done correctly. You can reach high levels of strength, and high levels of conditioning, with a very simple tool that takes very little space, can be used in the home, and takes very little time.

That is some of the reasons behind the popularity of it, and for us it’s just kind of just a great all around tool really for anybody.

Brett McKay: One of the things about the kettle bell, it’s not just a strength tool. It could also be used as a conditioning tool.

Eric Frohardt: Absolutely.

Brett McKay: Work capacity. I actually, speaking of how it can fit in your house, right? You don’t really need much space. I have like a kettle bell right by my kitchen just sitting there. Whenever I, it’s the whole greasing the groove principle which I got from Pavel.

Eric Frohardt: Absolutely.

Brett McKay: Whenever I walk by it, no matter what, I’ll stop and do five kettle bell swings with it.

Eric Frohardt: That’s great, that’s a great way to … Grease the groove is just one of his many awesome programs. It’s worked well with kettle bell movements, pull ups is a really good one too.

Brett McKay: Yeah I’ve got that going. I have, yeah. Explain what grease the groove is, because it’s a pretty cool, it’s so simple but it has such profound implications if you actually put it into practice.

Eric Frohardt: It’s really cool. It’s this simple, you’re just kind of practicing a movement or grooving a pattern, kind of randomly throughout the day. The idea is instead of doing let’s say my, let’s say I’m going to practice doing just pull ups, and instead of doing my five sets of five pull ups, one after another with a couple of minutes break in between, if I do them throughout the day it allows me to practice each set more well rested. If I’m going to do heavy pull ups, it works really well, and I can get strong. I just kind of, there’s a lot of things about it. What I’ve always found is it just tricks you into doing a lot of volume as well as doing none of the sets are you really tired.

Brett McKay: Yeah.

Eric Frohardt: Because you’re not doing five sets of five or whatever right after another, you’re kind of just doing it as you pass by.

Brett McKay: Yeah, exactly. I have one of those door frame pull up bars.

Eric Frohardt: Right.

Brett McKay: Another place in my … And any time I walk under it I crank out five pull ups.

Eric Frohardt: Perfect.

Brett McKay: What I love about the grease the groove thing is that whole idea that strength is a skill because a lot of people think that okay, to get stronger you just need to build up muscle mass. There’s a nervous, the nerve process in there, your nerves have to learn how to contract your muscles in a certain way in order to maximize on that muscle capacity.

Eric Frohardt: Absolutely, there’s, and I’m not, Pavel is really good at this stuff, the explaining it, and some of our senior instructors also very good at it. All of our leadership, from team leader, to senior, to master, they would know all this stuff a little bit better, what I find is that when you treat it like a practice you want to approach each practice session so that most of them you leave feeling better.

Brett McKay: Yeah.

Eric Frohardt: Because you’re maintaining good form throughout, you’re not there to get the burn. The neat thing about that is it’s a good way to get strong without bulking up. You mentioned the mind to muscle connection, it’s very, very critical. Just teaching yourself to get full recruitment out of a muscle, or not full but more recruiting out of a muscle versus just growing the size of that muscle. It’s a very, very powerful thing. It’s part of a bunch of our different programs, from grease the grove, simple and sinister, easy strength, things like that. It’s very important that you get that mind to muscle connection.

Brett McKay: If you’re listening, this is a great thing. Do this, go out and get one of those door frame pull-up bars, they cost like fifteen bucks. Put it on your door frame, any time you walk through it crank out five pull-ups. Or if yo can’t even do a pull-up, just do one pull-up.

Eric Frohardt: Yep.

Brett McKay: Add on, or just hang, right? Or you can do the same thing with the kettle bell. One of the things I’ve noticed about Strong First and the content you put on the website as well as in the content in the books is that you focus on the psychology of strength as well. Not just the physical aspects. My question is what psychological barriers do you think get in the way of people getting strong? Or stronger?

Eric Frohardt: Yeah. It’s, I mean I think there’s a few different ones. We believe as many do that attitude is everything. We spend a lot of time talking about it, and we try to distinguish ourselves as Strong First instructors. We try to distinguish ourselves from the hoards of trainers littering the landscape of the industry. We like to, Pavel always says we’re not trainers, we’re instructors. Trainers have dogs. We have students. He also says that we don’t have clients, hairstylists have clients, we have students, right? It’s definitely a mindset thing. Our instructors, they’re brought together by the beliefs I had mentioned earlier. One of which is strength has a greater purpose. Strength is a skill, and things like that. They realize that the barriers preventing some people from achieving their potential in strength training, there’s just a number of different ones.

Some people get worried that they’ll get too big if they start strength training, right? They’re more interested in lean and not getting strong. They don’t understand that getting strong is a really awesome way to get lean and it’s muscles that actually work versus muscles that look. If it was easy to just get big by strength training, the supplement industry wouldn’t be as successful as it was, right? So many people that are lifting, and taking supplements, and they still can’t in their mind get big enough. We kind of combat that, that you won’t really get too big if you strength train, and you get incredibly strong without getting much bigger than you already are. Most people actually lose weight when they start, even though they’ll be gaining some muscle. As you start to get better, and you start to pursue goals, then you sometimes tell yourself as you have a new goal of you see other goals that people have achieved. There’s the voice in your head saying I can’t do that, right?

We try to convince people that we have a number of people who have achieved amazing physical feats either as our beast tamers or tactical strength challenges or other little goals that we have. They’re not all huge, right? It’s in many cases it’s mind over matter. Especially if you look at it as strength training as a practice, and that consistency trumps intensity in the long run. The big problem is some people find our protocols kind of boring. It’s just like, grease the groove is not that sexy.

Brett McKay: No, it’s not.

Eric Frohardt: Every time you walk by the pull-up bar do pull-ups. The problem is we don’t chase fads, what we do is timeless. We stick to what works, whether it’s the principle or the tool. The tool being the kettle bell, the bar bell or the body weight. We understand that many people get the exercise ADD, and they want to do something new, they want to quote “feel the burn.” They can, I’ve heard people say oh I did swings twice last week and now I’m an expert, what’s next. They don’t want to stick to it and master the basics, and quite honestly I saw the same thing in firearms training. You would have people who can finally hit a target five yards away, and they want to start moving and shooting with the lights off. They don’t really care about the basics.

When I was in the military, when I was a young Navy Seal there was a place that we got some high end firearms training. The instructors there, they said a bunch of different things and many of them stuck with me. None more than this statement, and that is the best do the basics better. I’ve used that in so many parts of my life now, and I think it’s so true in physical training or firearms training. Our world is full of people who are quote “bored with the basics” and mediocre. If they would just spend time on the basics in firearms training, the basic trigger squeeze at three yards and things like that, and in the kettle bell world, our kettle bell swing.

If you had people spend time on those basics, they’d be a lot better off. They’d just get bored. As Pavel says many times, the kettle bell swing takes like five minutes to learn, and a lifetime to master. I think if people spent more time on basics, and stuck to their goals, instead of changing programs every three weeks, they’d be a lot better off.

Brett McKay: I love that, the whole idea I guess about what they call it, I think in martial arts they call it the white belt mentality, right? Although there’s all these anecdotal stories from like Vince Lombardi like on the first day of practice the first thing he would do is hold up a football and he says gentlemen this is a football. He explained then this is a football field. It’s divided up into a hundred yards. Then Wooden, the UCLA basketball coach, he did something like that. The first day of practice he would show them how to tie their shoes so they wouldn’t come untied.

Eric Frohardt: That’s awesome.

Brett McKay: Just the basics, right? And they were incredibly successful because they focused on those basics.

Eric Frohardt: Absolutely, no I’ve seen it. Martial arts is a great analogy. You have whether it’s jujitsu or krav maga, whatever you’re taking, some schools you go to and you learn like six moves in an hour.

Brett McKay: Yeah.

Eric Frohardt: You feel like wow that was cool and you can’t recall any of them when it matters. The good ones they spend time drilling one thing and to the point of boredom but then you can draw on it when you need it.

Brett McKay: Yeah, I love that. One thing I’ve noticed too whenever you start focusing on the basics is that, and you have that mentality of trying to get better at it, is that it starts getting like actually really interesting because you start noticing nuances that you didn’t notice as a beginner. It takes awhile to get to that place though.

Eric Frohardt: Absolutely, and that can be as simple as you know, I’ve been doing martial arts for awhile. I’m starting to notice like just tweaking little things about hitting the heavy bag. Where the power comes from and when to relax and stuff like that. The kettle bell, especially our ballistic moves, like the kettle bell swing. It’s such a neat balance between tense relax tense relax, and the hip drive and things like that. When to, how long it floats versus forcing it down. There’s just a lot of different things you can do with it.

Brett McKay: You guys offer several courses with the school of strength. We do a lot of fitness content on the site, and I guess one complaint I would call it, some guys say we talk about too much like advanced stuff, guys who are already fit. For the guy who’s just like, man he needs to lose thirty, forty pounds, he hasn’t exercised maybe ever in his life, what’s a good entry point exercise or course for that kind of guy?

Eric Frohardt: Yeah. For most people we always recommend they have a couple of options. They can look for a Strong First certified instructor in their area to show them some basics with the kettle bell, or bar bell, or body weight. It takes, it’s important that if you’re going to use kettle bells that you learn how to use them safely. You see them in gyms all the time now, and for the most part even the trainers at gyms are doing the exercises wrong. Finding an instructor, getting a lesson or a group class, is a great way to start. Another, and I would recommend that before just buying kettle bells and clicking to YouTube and saying go. Another great option we have, we created user courses. We have the user course for the kettle bell, bar bell, and body weight. The kettle bell is the most popular user course, and it’s a very in depth user course.

It’s about eight hours but you spend a lot of time learning the basic moves and it’s a good way to learn those moves in a course setting, non intimidating environment. It’s a single day, instead of our certifications are three days long and they obviously cost a lot more money and not everybody wants to be a kettle bell instructor so we created this user course. It’s a really good option.

Brett McKay: Is this something they have to come out to Denver for?

Eric Frohardt: No, we have user courses all over.

Brett McKay: Okay, cool.

Eric Frohardt: In most states now we have user courses, but we have a user course in Denver if you ever want to come out.

Brett McKay: I need to get out to Denver. Actually, my managing editor Jeremy lives in Denver.

Eric Frohardt: Oh, cool.

Brett McKay: Maybe I’ll get him over there.

Eric Frohardt: Yeah, send him my info. I’d love to send him to a user course and let him know, have him let me know what he thinks.

Brett McKay: Yeah, fantastic. What about the guy who’s intermediate, right? Or he’s a question, I know we have a lot of guys who are LEOs or in the military. Do you guys have specific like training programs for these type of guys?

Eric Frohardt: We do a lot of training for law enforcement and military. It’s, we don’t really have much of that on the website yet. We’re going to have our own kind of division that just focuses on that at some point. We’ve already been doing it without really having that yet. We do, with some very basic stuff for them, the kettle bell and body weight in particular are popular because they’re just very easy to have when you travel. I mean, I’m a really firm believer in it. When I started using the kettle bell, my kit, my body armor whatever you want to call it, it started to feel a lot lighter. I felt like I could move around a lot better and it just really, really worked.

Brett McKay: Cool. If you had to choose one single lift movement exercise for someone to do, I know this is probably like picking children, but what would it be?

Eric Frohardt: I mean for me that’s an easy question. I would say hands down the kettle bell swing. As I mentioned before, you can learn it very quickly, but you can spend a lifetime trying to master it. It’s just a great movement, or a great exercise for strength and conditioning. We’ve used it to help elite endurance athletes, and elite power lifters. Myself, I used it to make myself a better soldier, a better operator. It carries over to a lot of different athletic endeavors, in fact I once took my dead lift from three sixty to four fifty and this was at a body weight of one eighty, so from two to two and a half times my body weight. I took my dead lift up that much just by doing three months of swings three days a week at varying intensities. We call that the what the heck effect, because I didn’t do dead lifts and I didn’t do whatever that I was testing, but I saw that stuff improve.

Nowadays I do almost no cardio, I jump rope a couple times a week, I do a one mile walk each day of course, and sometimes I hike or ski on weekends and typically I do kettle bell swings at least two to five days a week depending on what program I’m on. No real cardio per se, like most people consider cardio the treadmill or the elliptical. None of that boredom, or as Pavel says none of that dishonor. All I do is the hiking and the jump rope and the kettle bell and I just got a physical and my heart rate was forty seven beats a minute, so it really does work as a form of cardio. The kettle bell swing is as we say, it’s the center of the kettle bell universe. If you have a good swing, you’re going to be good at most of the other moves.

Brett McKay: That’s awesome. You’ve got me, I’m going to go do kettle bell swings now.

Eric Frohardt: Yeah.

Brett McKay: I’m drinking the kool aid, I’m going to go do it right now.

Eric Frohardt: Well that’s a good thing. It’s easy, I have one here in the office, it just fits everywhere.

Brett McKay: They do. I mean what, so here’s a quick, like what weight do you suggest for guys?

Eric Frohardt: That’s a good question. Most guys will get the most use out of the twenty four kilo.

Brett McKay: Okay.

Eric Frohardt: I think that’s about fifty three pounds.

Brett McKay: Is that a pood?

Eric Frohardt: Yeah, I think so. I have to look at the …

Brett McKay: One pood.

Eric Frohardt: One pood.

Brett McKay: Two poods.

Eric Frohardt: A lot of people will get, will start at the sixteen kilo.

Brett McKay: That’s not enough.

Eric Frohardt: That’s not enough for most, but it’s a … There’s some good moves you can do with that. Right now I’m doing the simple and sinister protocol, and I’ll kind of go back and forth between twenty four and the thirty two kilo.

Brett McKay: Okay.

Eric Frohardt: Thirty two kilo is like seventy two pounds or something.

Brett McKay: Awesome, cool. Simple and sinister, that’s the new book right?

Eric Frohardt: Yeah.

Brett McKay: Where can people find out more about Strong First and the programming you all offer?

Eric Frohardt: Yeah just check us out on strongfirst.com. It’s all kind of laid out there with our courses and our certs. Links to the different books and it’s just, that’s where we send people. If they want to find a Strong First instructor in their area they can find those instructors through our page.

Brett McKay: Awesome, well Eric Frohardt, this has been an awesome conversation. Thank you so much for your time, it’s been a pleasure.

Eric Frohardt: Thanks Brett, I appreciate it. Have a good day.

Brett McKay: Our guest today was Eric Frohardt. He’s the CEO of Strong First. You can find out more information about Strong First and their training programs at strongfirst.com.

Well that wraps up another edition of the Art of Manliness Podcast. For more manly tips and advice, make sure to check out the Art of Manliness website at artofmanliness.com. If you enjoy this show, you’ve gotten something out of it, please please please give us a review on iTunes or Stitcher. That’ll help get the word out. The best compliment you could give us is to recommend the podcast to a friend. We’d really appreciate it. Anyways, until next time this is Brett McKay telling you to stay manly.

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