Comments on: Manly Honor VI: The Decline of Traditional Honor in the West in the 20th Century

By: A

Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:11:33 +0000

I have dealt with men from all over the world and the “honor code” is pretty universal. I feel we lose something without it.

By: T

Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:14:18 +0000

Just reading these articles, thank you Mr. & Ms. McKay.

I think road rage might be an example of phantom honor. How infuriating to endure the incessantly insulting behavior of other motorists! The occasional retaliatory behavior we read of might all be about honor, in a phantom kind of way.

By: Robert

Robert — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:56:16 +0000

I think you under emphasize the increased effectiveness and law enforcement here. Honor, more than anything else, is a signaling mechanism in societies with week states. When members of societies can’t count on the state to protect property or enforce contracts, codes of honor are important because they demonstrate a man is worthy of trust because he obeys the code, and too fearsome to cross or steal from because he has and will defend his honor.

As the state is more and more effective at enforcing law and order, extra-legal system like morality actually make society work less smoothly. That’s why you see honor primarily exist in places where the state is week, like developing countries, black markets (see omerta) or in crumbling suburbs and the urban core (street gangs). Honor, respect, have a “platoon” of men to be able “roll deep” with all were very important in crack age Baltimore, for example.

By: Alexander

Alexander — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 00:36:45 +0000

I noticed you haven’t touched on “honour killing” in which a father will kill a daughter that disgraces the family(real or imagined), not the accuser or perpetrator.

It is a problem in the indo-canadian community of BC , congruent with traditional honour. violence for the good of the group(think).

By: Rosyid

Rosyid — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:59:09 +0000

This is interesting. A great article. It made me think about the popularity of My Little Pony :FiM, among male audience. It create ‘bronies’ community with ‘tolerance’ as one of main value. The interesting fact is sometime to show the like in public, considered Manly. To insulting the like for the show considered main insult, end with internet Flame duel. The more manly a bronies will ‘tolerate’ to extremes, with kindness (duel is still main option, but more civil). This show even like by numerous military personnel. Plus, one of main villain named ‘discord’. I think it is not a coincidence, according to this article, that some reason this show drew more male audience than it supposed to be. It is in relation with the change of perception of honor. Great insight. Thank.

By: JWard

JWard — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 21:46:50 +0000

This is a very interesting piece, but I just wanted to comment to say that PTSD is not a purely psychological disorder; it is the result of head trauma, a physical injury. It cannot be compared to weakness or cowardice. I also think someone whose mental state has deteriorated to the extent that they are unwilling or unable to serve on the front lines could be more of a liability than an asset. You need to know that your fellow soldiers have your back, and someone who has lost his nerve (beyond that which can be pumped up by a pep talk) will not have your back.

By: Dave

Dave — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:23:37 +0000

@Terry, there are worthy men out there. I’m sure it’s hard not to get discouraged, but hang in there. It was interesting to read a woman’s point of view because, in my opinion, the feminist movement has been one of the main causes of the decline of manly honor. Yes, it has achieved many positive things—no man today wants to go back to treating women they way they did in the early seasons of “Mad Men”. But after being told for years by feminists that men shouldn’t be chivalrous to or protective of women, that many of them take offense to simple things like picking up the check or holding a door, that in fact men aren’t even needed anymore for procreation, should we be surprised by what many men have done in reaction to these developments. But not all of us have turned into Phil Donahue (and my wife is every bit as good-looking as his is).

By: rico567

rico567 — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:16:53 +0000

The most interesting post in the comments for this segment is by “Herbert West.” It’s a perfectly illustration of how any claim to manhood in a dawning 21st century United States is immediately leapt upon as a power trip….while a trip through these essays indicates that it is -in fact- anything but.

By: Cory B. in B.A., Ok.

Cory B. in B.A., Ok. — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 16:54:22 +0000

Thanks so much for this series, Brett. It has been an excellent source of confirmation in more ways than one.

By: Jason

Jason — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:22:15 +0000

As a Marine in 2001-2002 I was at the Defense Language Institute to study Russian. During one of our ass-chewing sessions by our detachment Gunny, he said something that hit home the idea of traditional honor among the military: “You all are Marines! You are the closest thing to knighthood that America has!” One of the three core values of the Marines is Honor. Walk the line. Do not bring shame to yourself, your unit, or your country. The best way to avoid scandals is to not put yourself in compromising positions.