Comments on: Manly Honor Part IV — The Gentlemen and the Roughs: The Collision of Two Honor Codes in the American North

By: Alexander

Alexander — Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:47:27 +0000

“should be based on primal, biological traits or in our capacity for higher virtues”

I believe they are inseparable.Without understanding and acceptance of our primal biological needs how can we hope to use them to achieve our capacity for higher virtues.

It reminds me of a quote “Communism takes the best of human nature and makes it evil . Democracy takes the worst of human nature and makes it good”.

And

“that the whole point and joy of human life is to integrate the spiritual with the material, the mystical with the sensuous, and the altruistic with a kind of proper self-love.” – Alan Watts

Can’t wait to finish this series.

By: Denise

Denise — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 12:48:48 +0000

I am a Yankee by geographic locale, at birth, but a Southerner in spirit.

These “honorable” men of the North may have “saved the Union” – but in doing so – they’ve destroyed the Nation created by the Founders, and their Race, created by God. I think there is no honor at all, in doing this.

By: Vaughn Hathaway

Vaughn Hathaway — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 16:52:18 +0000

As flawed as it may well have been, the concept of “Women and Children First” as demonstrated in such disasters as the sinking of the Titanic illustrate 19th Century manhood. Note: a strict adherence to this rule caused the misloading of many lifeboats because the women could not handle the oars.

By: C. Anderson

C. Anderson — Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:45:56 +0000

A comment about Teddy Roosevelt embodying both the gentleman and the rough in one man: something to keep in mind is that Teddy Roosevelt’s mother was deeply southern in birth and attitude. I expect that he imbibed both Northern stoicism and Southern honor from birth.

By: Phil

Phil — Sat, 08 Dec 2012 09:47:44 +0000

Brucifer,
I would rebut your comment about the boorish and slovenly “real men don’t care” with a question: what reason would I, an intelligent, physically strong, and self-assured man, have to care for the regard or disdain of men I can either out-think or out-work on any given day of the week? It doesn’t matter what clothes a man wears in public, or how he grooms himself, when he is equal to any man or task that may confront him. I would say that anyone that has more interest in the clothes on a mans back, or the cut of his hair, than the mind in his head, or the strength of his hands has no idea how to fairly weigh a man in the first place.

By: Joe P

Joe P — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 17:01:27 +0000

Being a huge fan of history I am really enjoying these post and they add a lot to my own personal study of the time periods. Keep up the good work!

By: Colin

Colin — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 16:48:48 +0000

Being a big fan of science and philosophy, I can really appreciate the more “refined” art of manliness. I could sit for hours and talk about philosophy, theology, science and various arts and music. My entire father’s family is very artsy, well educated, and rather aloof so to speak.

On the flip side, I love sports, I lift weights, I love muscle cars and big engines, explosions, guns, fighting and hard physical labor. It’s so much simpler and incredibly relaxing. It’s definitely where I feel more at home. My guess is I get that from my mother’s side – hard working Italian immigrants, came to this country dirt poor and worked their way to the middle class.

So one day I wear button downs and dress pants, and other days I wear plaid jackets and jeans.

I firmly believe all things in moderation. A true man should be able to be gentle and intellectual when he needs to be, and when the time and place is right, he should be able to kick ass and get **** done.

By: Harry R. Burger

Harry R. Burger — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 04:42:35 +0000

BBC America has a show called Copper set in New York City towards the tail end of the Civil War. One of the underlying themes the show explores is this dichotomy of honor, as the eponymous policeman deals with crime and social interaction in “Five Points and Fifth Avenue.” This article is a scholarly and intellectual explanation of how they work, but the show depicts it and shows what it means as it plays out. I feel like I understand it much better for having seen both.

The burning question that remains is, what shall we do about it in the modern era? What is honor now?

A man is capable of behaving himself in polite company, watches out for the needs of his community and those less fortunate than himself, does his share, and is fully capable of enduring hardships without modern conveniences as needed.
He’s also not too much of a prude to hang out with the boys for a little gambling and drinking, knows when to swear a bit for effect without using it to excess and diluting its meaning, and if somebody takes a swing he knows how to avoid the worst of it, take the hits that get through, and eliminate the threat to the peace. He doesn’t start a fight, but he knows how to finish one. Most importantly, he takes responsibility for his actions, for good and for ill.

By: Nicholas | Living the Rustic Life

Nicholas | Living the Rustic Life — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:09:12 +0000

I’m from Massachusetts and this couldn’t ring truer. Things may have changed a bit, but we still have a definite conflict between gentlemen and roughs.

Today, it seems, the “gentlemen” have gotten even more effeminate. The roughs remain pretty much the same. These are generalizations, of course.

There’s also a lot of in-between here. Many “roughs” have been civilized over the generations but retain their rugged, blue-collar ethic.

I look forward to the other installments!

By: Lefty

Lefty — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:40:38 +0000

I think you will find these two traits of the “rough” and of the gentlemen well married in some modern cowboy myths, as well as in the poems and stories of classic Argentinian gentleman Jorge Louis Borges – stories about the gachos, the argentinian equivalent of cowboys.