TR: A Man of Action. A Man of Contemplation.
From time to time, readers will email me an article they’ve read that argues a point contrary to the message of the Art of Manliness and suggest that I respond to it. I have typically declined because I am of the idea that it’s better to act than to react and that the best thing to do is to keep on doing my thing, because the cream will simply rise to the top. And I don’t see the point in giving misguided opinions greater exposure.
But today I’d like to break that rule. Because a reader pointed out an article that addresses an issue I’ve seen pop up in comments here, and is something men might be wondering about. The article in question is entitled, “Male Identity,” and was published on Askmen.com. I don’t have a high opinion of that website–as I’ve stated before, those kinds of shallow men’s magazines are what prompted me to start the Art of Manliness in the first place. So the article itself really doesn’t warrant a response, but it will serve very well as an excellent jumping off point to explore an important issue.
The author, Ian Lang, begins the article by taking a swipe at the Art of Manliness, goes on to lament our culture’s preoccupation with being a man, and concludes by arguing that “real men” don’t worry about what it means to be a man.
There’s plenty to find fault with in the article from the author’s cherry picking of AoM articles, to his assertion that straight razor shaving is more expensive than using modern razors, to the irony of his criticism of male lifestyle websites on the biggest male lifestyle site on the web.
But today I just want to focus on these assertions:
“Finally, do you think your dad would enjoy lying in a field with you making daisy chains and contemplating what it means to be a man? No. He would tell you to work hard, that life doesn’t ever get easier and to stop being such a pussy.”
” To paraphrase perhaps the best teacher I ever had in school, you know you’re a man when you stop trying to prove that you are.”
“Real men don’t waste time worrying about it. Real men get on with their lives, whatever their lives may be…They don’t stop and ask what it means to be a man because they’re too busy being one for that kind of self-referential bullshit.”
Is Manhood Born or Made?
Lang’s argument is not uncommon—and should be expected from a generation that often eschews work and free choice in favor of a “born this way” ethic. But the assertion that a man just is only makes sense if you are ignorant of the historical record and/or believe that manhood is something that you exit the womb with or magically absorb through the ether as you grow up. Those who don’t come out of the womb endowed with manliness and a furry baby chest are thus lost causes.
But while you can be born genetically male, manliness is something that must be learned, earned, and proved.
While Lang paints the picture that our modern preoccupation with what it means to be a man and the desire to prove our manhood is a modern phenomenon, it’s actually a very ancient tradition. The desire to prove one’s manhood has been the driving force of males since our caveman days. And many of history’s greatest men not only pondered what it meant to be a man, but studied the question deeply throughout their lives. Teddy Roosevelt’s insecurity about and desire to prove his manhood is what drove him to preach the doctrine of the strenuous life and accomplish a lifetime of amazing feats.
Being preoccupied with what it means to be a man is not the aberration–the idea that men simply are and should just get on with it is the modern invention. It is a concept that flies in the face of thousands of years of tradition. In fact, I’d argue that Lang’s position–that real men don’t worry about what it means to be a man–is one of the biggest contributing factors to the sad state of many young Western men today.
Manliness Can Be Taught. And It Must Be.
“Anyone who has practiced what is good is ashamed to turn out badly. Manliness is teachable.” -Euripides, 423 BC
As we’ve highlighted countless times on the site, in almost every culture, in almost every time, societies have spent a great deal of time “worrying” about what it means to be a man. For thousands of years, men around the world had rites of passages that initiated them into manhood. Elders would take young men underneath their wings to ensure that they were properly taught how to perform the duties and responsibilities of a man. And once boys became men, maintaining their manhood was a lifelong preoccupation.
But in the past 50 years or so, we turned our back on that tradition. We stopped worrying about what it means to be a man. We no longer celebrate rites of passage into manhood. The books and speeches frequently given in times past on the topic of manliness and manhood have ceased. Mentors have disappeared. Society refuses to offer any concrete ideals of what it means to be a man lest we offend people and make others feel left out. So we let boys create their own idea of manhood and just expect them to figure out what it means to be a man on their own.
Without any clear guidance on what it means to be man, we shouldn’t be surprised that we have so many young men today coasting along in life stuck between adolescence and adulthood without any direction. That’s what you get when you don’t take the time to contemplate and study what it means to be a man.
One of the most important things that our ancestors understood, and we have forgotten, is that left to our own devices, humans will take the path of least resistance. Every time. In life we are constantly swimming against a great current–once we stop making an effort, the current pushes us downstream. Real life long-distance swimmers must consume a great deal of calories to fuel their progress. We too need fuel to drive our manliness–we must constantly be filling our tank with the best advice out there, writings from websites and books, advice from friends and family, to fuel our actions.
A Man of Contemplation, A Man of Action
It is truly a false dichotomy to say that “real men” don’t need to spend time thinking about manhood and that they should just get busy being men.
This is a very American idea of manliness, gleaned from cowboy and action movies–shoot first now and ask questions later. But if you’re a broader student of history and culture, you know that far from being mutually exclusive, contemplation and action go hand in hand.
Yes, a man should be a man of action. That is the end of his creation. But what is the means to that end? What kind of actions should he take? What is driving that action? What is the purpose of that action? What kinds of goals and priorities, values and morals should a man have? Contemplation is needed to answer these questions. Contemplation leads to right action.
No one would say to someone who wishes to be a scientist, “No need for studying–just get in the lab and do something!” The scientist must first study the basic principles of his field and then experiment, and then make discoveries. It is no different for manliness.
It is easy to point at our grandfathers and fathers, as Lang does, and say, “They were men and they didn’t worry about being men.” Sure, our grandfathers were men of action, but many had jobs that made them unhappy, were in unhappy marriages, didn’t know how to deal with the scars of war, and were distant and cold fathers. (And many were quite happy as well, of course!).
As far as our fathers go, many of the Baby Boomer generation worked too hard, got divorced, and failed to pass down the art of manliness to their sons. They didn’t take the time to think about what was truly important in life. How many men in our generation only wish their dad had spent some time with them “lying in a field with you making daisy chains and contemplating what it means to be a man.” Well, maybe not the daisy chain making part.
Neither action without contemplation, nor contemplation without action will get you very far in life. A man must learn to harness and balance each force.
Of course it also comes down to your definition of what constitutes “a real man.” It’s true that it doesn’t take much work to look at galleries upon galleries of hot babes of the week. But if you believe that being a man means living a life of virtue and excellence and reaching your full potential, then that won’t happen without a great deal of both study and effort.
This definition also means that studying and contemplating what it means to be a man does not necessarily mean reading only books specifically about manhood, although that can be beneficial. Rather it means engaging with works, both ancient and modern, and people that can teach you the virtues and practical skills you need to become the best man you can be. This covers a wide spectrum of subjects!
Is Manliness a Fad?
I do agree with Lang on a few things, mainly that the glut of hand-wringing articles about what is wrong with men is getting beyond tiresome and the commodification of manliness, and the resulting spate of man-focused products is unfortunate. We did just fine before the advent of bodywash designed just for us.
But the real danger in this resurgence of interest in manliness is not that it’s making men wimpy as Lang argues–quite the opposite as we’ve just discussed. Rather, the danger is that manliness will come to be seen as just another passing trend, like metrosexuality. There are books and tv shows coming out on the theme, endless newspaper and magazine articles, and social commentary galore. I fear that people will get tired of all the media attention, which will prompt a backlash, and an inevitable swing back in the other direction, back to where men don’t give a damn about being the best men they can be.
The return to true manliness advocated by AoM is not a trend or a fad, it is an effort to close the gap created during the past few decades and once again grasp the ancient tradition of manhood. One in which men contemplated what it meant to be a man and took action to attain that ideal.
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Brett,
I remember reading this on your website, “A gentleman will not insult me, and no man not a gentleman can insult me.” – Frederick Douglass
Great article. For a short time I read from the askmen.com website and found it briefly entertaining, that is, until I found the greatness that is AoM. The website as a whole dwarfs that of askmen in all aspects. I thoroughly enjoy each article. Thank you.
I clicked on the link to the website in question. I sincerely wish I hadn’t.
Perhaps a more emphatic warning would be in order: “The linked article is dross, and may result in some loss of intelligence.”
But that’s just me. Fortunately, I think I clicked away before any real damage was done.
If Men were men instead of children or adolescents, I’d be out of a job…………….I am a cop. Good Article.
Active and intentional growth is essential to be a man (not to mention gentleman) in modern society. We are flooded with examples of what a man should NOT be, instead of what he should be. Choosing to be a better man and continuing your growth along such a path must be deliberate and determined. If I am to honor my forefathers’ legacy, honor my family and friends, and treat the love of my life like she deserves, I must constantly be aware of and strive to improve my manliness. Simply absorbing what is available in mainstream media and culture will cost me everything.
nice one brett,reading the askmen article yesterday i couldnt help but think of how much i disagreed with lang and how his assertion of what manliness is oozed machismo and ignorance and was angry how he took a dig at a wedsite that teaches the betterment of a lost generation(one that im a part of at 18.) i appriciate what you do here,stick it to him!
And THAT is why I do not visit that site. Well written article here, well said.
It is one thing to float along with the whims of society and follow the crowd. It is another thing entirely to choose one’s own path and rigorously take action in order to achieve goals. Not too long age, as argued in the books “Fire in Belly” and “Iron John” men in modern society were being de-masculated by the women’s liberation movement. The authors correctly pointed out that there was nothing wrong with women achieving equality; in fact that was the way society needed to evolve, but that it was important to recognize that men and women are different, and the men should not subjugate masculinity to a societal trend.
In order to become truly successful or knowledgable, one must learn. A successful investor does not simply start trading and become rich. An brickmason does not achieve great works of masonry without years a learning and applying new skills to their trade.
The same is true for the FUNDAMENTALS OF LIFE. We learn our morality, we practice etiquette, we apply lessons of philosophers, tradesmen, and heroes that have gone before us in order to become a better person – or in this case – a true man.
Brett and Kate have it right. You need to learn and practice manliness. That does not mean that you obsess about it. You simply live you life according to a code. A code that is learned, taught, and passed on.
Reminds me of a phrase I read years ago in an old theology text: qui non proficit, deficit. Proficit in manhood, as in any facet of life, comes only through a combination of reflection and action.
Thanks AOM for consistently thoughtful posts.
I think Lang must have been referring to the average man when he wrote about “real men”, whilst you, talk about the average man and the above average man. Such as your Roosvelt’s, Shackleton’s, et al. These are the inspirational figures that stand out from history. Men of honor, righteousness and often grit.
I think this is one of the finest articles you’ve wrote to date. Succinct and not over played. Well done mate.
My dad passed away my freshman year of high school and I am about to enter my freshman year of college. I can say that it has been hard for me finding what it means to be a man without a father but the mentors that I have in my life have helped me. I am a man and I still know that I have more to learn, and it excites me. I am not daunted by it. Hemingway said, “Never be daunted.” I am not daunted by the task of discovering manliness. I agree whole heartedly that literature can inspire growth, curiosity, and manliness. Your website is grand, Brett. Great article!
Great Rebuttal! I have been following for a couple of years now, and I find you, Brett and Kate, to be great teachers. I am a teacher myself, and I believe that I am an exceptional one. I feel one of the most important things I do is challenge my students to think, but not to assert my opinions on them. I think that is just what you do at AoM.
In general, I do not respond in arguments like these either, but sometimes you need to fight back. Still, you did so by defending your points and stating your beliefs… not cutting down the opposition, like they did to you. In time, most people will see the rouse for what it is. Until then, we only need to answer to those who are deserving of our response. As I learned from one of your posts, “A gentleman will not insult me, and no man not a gentleman can insult me.” -Frederick Douglas
Manliness will likely be a fad for some, but it will not fade out for many more of us. Even those who stop actively contemplating manliness will have benefited from your articles and this website. Your efforts are very appreciated and you are both doing an excellent job inspiring new life into what it means to be a man. From one teacher to another, thank you for challenging us and please continue.
-K
This article is wonderful in explaining the difference between one thing and the other. I personally love this website. I like how you guys remind us that we can be all we are capable of being, how we can immerse ourselves in this ever evolving society and still keep the basic foundation/s that make a man, a real man. I come from another country and I tell you things are so different here and I see how the treatment of ladies is so different and people find it weird they way I act towards them for example. My upbringing and some of the articles found here have helped me to reconnect with who I am. It is not longer an stranger. it is me. Thanks AOM.
Excellent article. If you look at the example of the scientist, as in the article, or anything else in life whatsoever, study is required, I agree wholeheartedly on this and the point is clear. Intense effort and resolve is also something that needs to be learned along with discipline, as with all other skills. Thanks for a terrific web site and staying on the main thing, no need to respond to mediocrity.
I’ve found that too many sad men and women scoff at living a life that includes introspection and thoughtfulness as if being aware of your own actions and thought processes makes you some kind of wishy-washy hippie. My guess is that Lang and others like him are scared of what they see when they accidentally examine their own lives for a moment or two.
Having discovered this site a while back, I’ve been really pleased to see that there are other men out there who want to be better and who want to live up to their potential. The best men are the ones who contemplated their nature and how to improve themselves. I find the modern view of manhood quite repulsive, as it seems that manhood is somehow made an excuse, rather than an aspiration. I can’t count the number of men I’ve scolded for lechery who excused themselves by saying “I’m a man!” They honestly believe it’s okay for a married man to leer at the attractive, much younger women who work with them, as if those women don’t feel the stares. It’s that mentality that I think Askmen and most other “men’s” magazines and sites feed into: that we are out of control, and our libidinous impulses are the only things that matter.
It’s so great to see honest, thoughtful, aspirational content for men. I’ve even pushed my father to come to the site, and finally got him to do so by just bringing it up on his iPad. This site celebrates what it really means to be a man, and I’m so glad I stumbled upon it.
Maybe the most important point here is the balance between contemplation and action. All men, all people should have, or at least strive for this balance. I have clearly seen that people who lack contemplation are just downright ignorant. People who lack action are lazy bums. I don’t want to be either of those. Whatever our situation or whatever enivronment we came from, it does not really help to swing to the other extreme. Many people including myself have done just that. It really is about balance. Finding and living this balance of action and contemplation is the manly thing to do, and dare I say, it is an artform, it is spirit in expression.
Great response Brett. I appreciate what you are doing and want you to know that your website has made a difference in my life.
I’m on a quest to be a better husband, a better father and a better man. I want to develop a road map for my sons, so that they can grow up with a clear definition of what means to be a man.
Langs point is probably that your anxiety level about your actions should be context driven to real requirements from external forces, rather than buying into a toolkit given by a single independent preacher and getting to hung about whats missing. i.e Maleness is part of our brains and genetics. Dont get me into that. I study neuro and could tell you a fair bit. Briefly Male and female brains are structurally different and hormones are the reason.
However there is a problem in society. Look at the UK riots. Young men without fathers or good role models looting and behaving like grown chimps. Even so it can still be said at least they are behaving like male animals with base male instincts of hunting and raiding in co-operating groups, so they are still functionally male even in light of the absence of male input. This proves that the underlying seeds of masculinity are still present at the most basic biological level.
So trends in society aside, lets not get too hung up. All that we really need to worry about in the bigger picture is whether men are biologically men, and that diets are not affecting hormone levels. This is where the roots of homophobia lies. Testing men and weeding out weak links. I am opposed to the idea of promoting feminine males in the media. In real life they are not stable or dependable i am afraid to say. Although they are sometime good and interesting to know socially I personally had problems carrying out serious work with men who obviously have female neurology (long story) and are driven by moods and fickle interest.
Men proving themselves could be looked at as an anti-homophobia test. So yes why not. As long as its a test, to be gotten over and not spending too much time reflecting. A hierarchy has to weed out its weak links. Not many homosexual men can stride through traditional rites of passage and compete well with their heterosexual counterparts.
I, too, will not give the Askmen article any additional traffic. Past articles on AoM are important to me not only to open new information about previous generations, but also as a measuring stick as to how I’m doing teaching my own son about manliness. Being reflective is a necessary device especially when a mentor. For your son or someone else’s. You are filling a definitive need on this site, which is obvious from the strength of this comment stream.
If you are a man, the idea of “taking a swipe” at AoM is astounding to me. Keep writing, Kate and Brett…
Well said Brett, I think there are far too many men out there who are just falling back on the “make it up as you go along” method of being a man. This leaves the media as the primary source of examples, and pro athletes and beer commercials aren’t going to get us there. Kudos to you for creating and maintaining this site, I can’t count the number of articles and posts I’ve read on AOM that have made me think about what it is to be a man, and that have inspired me to work on becoming better myself. We could use more communities like this one…
bryan wrote
“Maybe the most important point here is the balance between contemplation and action. All men, all people should have, or at least strive for this balance. I have clearly seen that people who lack contemplation are just downright ignorant. People who lack action are lazy bums. I don’t want to be either of those. Whatever our situation or whatever enivronment we came from, it does not really help to swing to the other extreme. Many people including myself have done just that. It really is about balance. Finding and living this balance of action and contemplation is the manly thing to do, and dare I say, it is an artform, it is spirit in expression.”
The idea of balance itself though is not inherently male. you end up too concerned “am i reaching the right balance here”. How can you operate weighing all that up, requires too much parallel multi-task ? A contemplation should have a driving reason so that it emerges over other ideas and forces. Its a temporary reprieve from action because the action has not reached its goal.
My experience is that people who lack contemplation are often deliberate even willfully lazy in this mode, as they prefer to look for the local leader to follow. They are fully capable of taking on independent thought if they have to. e.g. They find themselves isolated for a long period.
As a former writer of ASKMEN, and long time reader, I can say with complete honesty, the material on Art of Manliness is superior.
I like how Brett wrote out his thoughts and counter thoughts. Notice how he didn’t whine or fire back maliciously. He was manly about it — exact if you will. He was even able to find common ground. I really like — and appreciate — how he didn’t make this out to be a bubble gum war.
I’ve read Askmen longer than AOM. I’ve always felt AOM material is more real, more concrete, and more useful. As of late, Askmen has taken a turn for the worst. They forgot about us faithful readers and followers. Their material is geared towards quantity of hits over value.
I certainly appreciate AOM’s site, as well as the community of followers.
Brett
I am going on 63. Successful,family raised. I can not say if I am the defenition of what a man is. I do know that I am always in the process of improving the way I live and treat others. It is never ending and you are helping. Your efforts are honorable and give people tools to be better people. From an old fart that is still on the journey thank you. You two are making a difference for the better world. I for one am greatful
I love this site, but the occasional anti-liberal bias is tiring. The problem isn’t that society is afraid of offending anyone by creating models of masculinity — it’s that settled, serious men aren’t desperate consumers who are easily manipulated by advertising.
Mr. Lang clearly missed the mark. It’s true that there isn’t a need to prove one’s manhood, but that is because manhood is defined by right action regardless of what anyone thinks. A man must learn to tune out gossips, doubters, and critics, and this is only possible if one developes Intrinsic, value based motivation. Thus, a man shows his manhood through his actions.
None of this comes naturally. It is natural to take the easy path; it is natural to seek fame; it is natural (somewhat) to be selfish. To overcome these instincts, one must embark on a lifelong program to live as a man and not a child. This site offers a roadmap on how to do this. Keep writing.
I pretty much agreed with his main point:
“Real men get on with their lives, whatever their lives may be. They don’t look for manhood in a can of body spray. They don’t stop and ask what it means to be a man because they’re too busy being one for that kind of self-referential bullshit.”
I guess that makes me an outcast here. I still like this site and will read it, even if there is meta-site bickering going on. Thanks for linking the article, Brett!
Interesting article from Askmen.com, a sophomoric and silly website in my opinion. I think I will apply that logic to other areas of my life. “Son, no need to sit around learning to drive a car, here are the keys just start drivin’!” or “Here is a loaded rifle, no need to learn proper gun safety, just start shootin’ son!”
Really, I didn’t think it was all that bad of an article. I agreed with his major point that there is a consumerism of ‘manliness’ and with Brett’s idea that making that a fad is detrimental.
To the point of the other author calling out AoM, I think he was just a lazy writer. He just looked at the side-bar and went from there. I can’t really blame him, I might have done the same thing. Cherry picking comments though, that is pretty low.
“…left to our own devices, humans will take the path of least resistance. Every time.”
Truer works have never been spoken.
There is a stark difference between being contemplative and worrying. I don’t believe that we should ‘worry’ about becoming the man we want to be. Worrying is at the heart of non-action. However, being contemplative, questioning your own actions, beliefs, and thoughts is what allows one to advance in any practice or discipline; the art of manliness chief among them.
If we are not improving and moving forward, we are falling back. I think hard about my choices and their consequences in order to improve myself and grow as a person (and a man). I don’t worry because that has never solved anything. However, I am extremely introspective. There is a difference and I believe it’s an important one.
Great article Brett and Kate. Those who believe that a real man squints into the sun, is rude to subordinates, and acts without thought are truly lost. I’m only 24, but I see the foolish pride in that course of action.
I actually read the Askmen article twice, just to be sure that Brett wasn’t misinterpreting its meaning. Not because I give Askmen the benefit of the doubt, but just because I typically like to be contrarian and play the devil’s advocate. Ha!
But, Brett is indeed correct in his assessment that Lang’s points are entirely off base. The article isn’t without merit, which Brett to his credit points out. But the stuff about men not needing to worry about or prove their manliness is quite simply exactly how we’ve gotten into this mess in the first place. And if anyone thinks we’re not in a mess simply take a look at the riots happening in London right now. Young men who were raised by men who never worried about what manliness meant….
There is a decided difference difference between a mere male animal, content simply to exist and be defined by the media and by women around him/it …. and a man perusing active and intentional growth.
The former would read … if they even bother to read … Askmen. The latter, find endless fine sources and inspiration in AOM.
I love the show “How I Met Your Mother” because we get to see three examples of men. Two of these men are what I aspire not to be (Barney and Ted) and the other one is a man (Marshall). It seems like the askmen.com is focused on being like Barney; superficial, shallow, and lost. The author goes to the extreme and tries to say that we on this site are Ted’s; Head in the cloud’s, etc.
I’ve only just found this site a month ago. Since then I have a standup desk, I’m on a pushup and situp program, and am studying to get my Ham operator permit, and learning about welding. I love this site and becoming a better man.
I appreciate today’s post. I think you are right on the money! I have a subscription to Askmen.com and I often don’t even bother to read the posts. It’s like the male version of Cosmo Lite. Posts with interesting titles, but no real meat when you get into the actual article. Thanks for your hardwork on keeping AOM on top of the pile!
First off, love the post. I was fortunate enough to have both a father and two grandfathers that believed in spending time with us. As to the whole “shut up and work” comment. I mean I remember a time or too my dad or granddad told me that, but odds are I was being obnoxious. And in regards to the whole “men don’t think about manliness” I can’t help but remember something my dad told me when I graduated from college, “You know Chris, no matter how often I say it, you won’t ever feel like you’re living up to what your dad did, but your doing a pretty good job of it so far.” It has stuck with me for two reasons, 1) my dad acknowledged me as an adult and 2) he let me know that he is right there with whatever feelings that me and my brother have of how selfless and simply awesome the guy is.
Keep up the good work sir,
Bravo, Brett.
Where others strike their thumbs and call themselves tough for bearing the pain, you’ve once again hit the manly nail on the head, as one is meant to.
Keep up the good work!
~H
You tell them.
I wrote a little parody on the overwhelming amount of articles and ideas that men today are not manly, etc. Enjoy (maybe) – language may be a little crass, but hey, we all have our own style.
http://aboveaverageblog.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/men-women-agree-to-completely-ignore-gender-distinction/
I remember reading an article on aom about how to control the ‘masses’ through rhetoric. In that article it stated that one way to strip freedom and control the people is to reduce an argument from logical to emotional appeal. aom asks us to think about what a man is and what he may do to make his life, and those around him, better. Askmen’s article instructs us to stop thinking about being men, as manhood is only used to get laid anyhow. Since the author of the askmen article eschews thinking, one can only conclude that he seeks emotional appeal, which is a slippery slope towards losing one’s freedom of thought.
Too many male publications are no more than the equivalent of cosmo. Articles written by women telling men how to behave . The implication is clear: act like a woman and women will like you better. I’m concerned about the lost art of being a man. I never really thought about this until a couple of years ago I was visiting my mother and out in the street was a carload of teenage boys. They had a flat tire. They knew just how to fix it. One of the boys whipped out his cell phone and called—his 70 year old grandfather to come and change the tire. Wow. When I was a teen, we would have had that sucker changed in NASCAR time. Not long after, I had to drop my wife off at her job. Which is not all that unusual. I noticed a lot of men dropping off wives and girlfriends. That is until my wife started pointing to various co-workers and saying who they were and then noting that the boyfriend or husband was dropping the wives off to work and were taking the girl’s cars home, where they apparently engaged in the new manly activities of playing video games and guitars, drinking with their equally unemployed buddies, picking up the kids from greandma’s and trying to make it with their neighbors. Interestingly not far away was a construction sight with a big “now hiring” sign. When did young men become women?
It didn’t take more than two articles from AskMen.com to realize its kind of a self centered sleazy website.
The word you picked out in your response, “Irony”, is quite appropriate. In fact, plenty of their stuff is about frivolous things like fashion and hair coloring which is in itself about life and style of men sans the manliness.
I go to this website because it has the backbone to stand up to popular things like pornography and reveal it to be the cesspool of unmanliness the habit is.
Well said Brett!
Learning isn’t for “pussies.” It’s for humans who want to grow and become better than they were.
People on the Internet often write things to get a rise, and the AskMen author is no different. (Think about it – he’s essentially saying, “stop reading AskMen.”)
I will agree on one thing: you’ve got to get busy building the life you want. However, too many people either don’t know what they want, or are confused because they’re told what they want by commercial interests selling that lifestyle…a recipe for disillusionment.
Existential questions and role questions are important. Someone has to teach this. It used to be fathers and other community members. Now it’s TV, movies and men’s magazines…a really poor trade-off. Perhaps that author feels he learned all he needs to know after watching “Mad Men” and “Fight Club,” but his very words demonstrate that maybe he could use a little quiet reflection himself.
Well done. It’s interesting that you were significant enough to take a swipe at. Congratulations! Keep up the great work!
A person who never looks at themselves introspectively is either scared of what they lack, or condemned to an existence of simply existing.
Hey, to each their own – although I think AskMen is contributing to the problem he is whining about.
I suppose there is a reason it’s call the ART of manliness, and not the SCIENCE of manliness – right, Brett?
if it means anything, i used to be a reader of askmen.com. no more, and not for a long time. i do visit this site everyday and feel i grow more with each article. honestly, i never learned anything, or at least anything useful, at that other website.
thanks for all you do
Loved the article, found the tension with askmen distracting. Wish I could have read it for the pure content alone. Stand in your dignity Brett.
Brett,
I just wanted to say that before I found AoM, I had a very difficult time trying to figure what “being manly” was all about. Your site has shown me that it’s not all about “6 pack abs” and “getting women into bed”, but about personal self growth and constantly striving for an ideal. Thank you for giving us a place where we can all learn what it means to truly be a man.
Great article, I love the baby boomer comments. I’m a younger man and I’ve noticed a behavior in this generation just as you describe it. Everyone thinks that the 50′s is this perfect, perfect, perfect era where everything, everything was right in the world.
Too many people were never taught that the best and most valuable things in life take time, a lot of time and hard work. In the times of “on demand” I don’t wonder why we are in the kind of shape we are in.
Cool stuff. I really like this site, but always wondered how close the McKays and I were in our conceptions of masculinity. I think we’re all very much together in being damn sick of reading “Are Men Necessary?” and literature of that ilk.
It seems like Lang is conflating two issues. One is that anything that a male does is necessarily masculine, which is true. The other is that one can become more aligned with his ideals, and that males tend to share certain sets of ideals. Which is also true, and seems to be the earnest premise of this blog.
Lang’s position is weak because he seems to be saying that manliness is something that happens without premeditation. However, what seems to happen without premeditation is the contemplation of what manliness is. Lang acknowledges how widespread this contemplation is as a premise for his argument. According to Lang’s own conclusion, there’s not much that’s manlier than wondering how to be a more manly man.
I don’t think he’s all together wrong, though. I think everyone reading this site, and Lang and his readers as well, have read just about enough versions of “Are Men Necessary?” over the past couple of years. I think he’s right that women are driving culture right now and running roughshod over the values of men. It will continue this way as long as men can not assert their interests, and they have not yet done so en masse.
For example, women are better employed now and more educated than men, yet still enjoy separate scholarship programs and professional societies that would seem abhorrent in their analogous male forms. Courts favor them categorically in custody battles. Plus, they still have the emotional weaponry and sexual initiative to attack men and bring them low, and they do this unabashedly because no one has told them it’s wrong yet. It’s not okay for a man to confess his feelings and be called a ‘creeper’ any more than it is okay for a woman to rebuff his advances and be called a ‘bitch’. Yet ‘creeper’ is the word of the day, isn’t it? It’s on every young woman’s tongue, trying to make her friends laugh at the expense of man (a man with feelings, it should be noted.) The Lonely Island even made a song called “Creeper” (it’s still funny, though.)
“So we let boys create their own idea of manhood and just expect them to figure out what it means to be a man on their own.”
A good example of moral-relativism taking hold on the minds of modern men.
We must promote and champion manhood. We are living in the feminization of the American male. There is an all out attack on manhood. Society is trying to turn our boys into girls and our girls into boys. If a man does not strive for manhood he will go the other way.
A great book for men is the Bible. It promotes manhood and womanhood in their proper context. What does God say about manhood.”1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. God is against effeminate men.
Chris
Well done, and thanks to everyone at AOM for inspiring deeper contemplation and more effective action in me as a man. I agree the two go hand in hand.
Wow Man ! You just torpedoed lil’ Ian’s canoe with a Mk48 !! If your gonna hit em’, hit em hard! I feel sorry for him now .. I hope he starts reading your blog and figuring things out. I (like you) grew to hate the modern male magazines and I am ashamed that I used my money to buy their crap when I was younger. I just wish AOM was a leatherbound series of books on my shelf.
I am a 51 year old man who last year happened to discover AOM. I have thoroughly enjoyed everything I have read. Boys and young men need examples to follow about what it means to be a man. Unfortunately for me, I was raised by a father who was emotionally distant and never spent time with me when I was growing up. I have had to learn things the hard way.
Because of this, It is vital that we pass down to the next generation the true virtues of manliness. The pain of the loss of relationship with my dad does not have to be in vain. I can help other young men in their quest to becoming men.
Thank you, McKays for your excellent work!
What is it to be a man? As an individual it is nessesary to constantly grow, understand, encourage and be encourged, to protect and keep peace. Contemplating and heavy thinking is of course be a part of that. The discipline of the mind does not just happen, it has to be formed. Only then can we make decsions that effect others, and qualify as leaders.
It is a paradox also, that we must work for peace and harmony, but be prepared for battle, at all times without panic. Teddy Roosevelt was the one who said,”Walk softly but carry a big stick”, It was his embracing both of those ideals at the same time that made him the man he was.
I have allways been challanged to live as a man, and have not taken that lightly, but many times its a decision making process we go through alone, when we do not have the right guidance. What actions to take, to protect what principles we respect, compared to what would happen if we didn’t. It has a lot to do with facing the fear with courage, because you are even more afraid of what could happen if you didn’t. Its what you are afraid of, not being fearless. Fear is part of life, and a healthy part also, because without it we lose awareness.
But we must be molded, and if we don’t have the benifet of good circumstances, father, mentor, or a stable place of learning and contemplation, we must search outside of our day to day exsistence, for vision and objectivity, to learn what a man is, and what is expected of him, and the rewards that will be found if he searchs.
It doesn’t just happen, its formed whithin, and all can have it, given a chance and with time and determination. Ah determination, one of a mans most valuable assets, as long as they keep thier mind open, and their pride in check.
Great article
I don’t see what the fuss is about. Yes he took a little backhanded swipe at the site, but he probably never bothered to really get in and read some of the things Brett posts here. That’s on him.
As for his point, I feel like if anything it’s something that would come up on this website as well. I too have noticed that marketers are really playing on our insecurities to try to sell us stuff. Askmen is plenty guilty of that, but for as superficial as their site is AoM is equally indulgent and self-righteous. I don’t like one any better than the other, but at least askmen keeps me up to date on a wider variety of topics.
And I have to agree with Lang about the comments posted here. This community is almost cult-like in its zealotry, and it’s really off-putting.
Genuine question: Was Gandhi “manly” as you define the term? That is, when someone asks, “Give me an example of a manly man,” and you hear the answer “Gandhi” offered, do you think, “Good one!” or do you want to offer a better example?
The only difference between man and animal is that man is given the ability to contemplate.
AOM: Brett,
Great essay Brett. I think your argument strikes one of the central issues with what I think is the problem with Men today. Namely the lack of good role models to teach what it is to be a Man. I would think that the author of the Askmen article would realize that just like math, reading, or history, Manliness is something that must be learned and prcticed. At any rate, keep up the good work.
Leisureguy:
Gandhi was most definitely manly in my opinion. The sheer determination and fortitude to do what he did puts him right up there with the best humanity has to offer.
Great article. I’m still studying how to be the best man I can be. I’m only 22, but I have had great “manly” examples in my life. Thank you for posting these articles and for this website.
Wow! The best manly reply.
I’m a 26-year old African, and have learned a lot since joining AoM.
Thanks to everyone involved
Well, nothing wrong with a bit of motivation, inspiration and contemplation. Also, I really don’t think working at it, being inspired is in any ways a wussy thing to do. I mean, in one way or another whether through legends, myths or stories of heroes etc. men have always been taught and have grown and imbibed what it means to be a man instead of just going about the business of living etc.
In any case, it works for me and if someone else thinks its stupid it doesn’t really bother me much. As far as I am concerned, this site is great work.
Thanks. When we are talking about what it means to be a ‘Man’ we could be using an entirely different title for it, but we are referring to an archetype of ‘upright, productive, independent human being.’ Call it ‘Man’ or whatever you want. It’s a goal we aim for.
Brilliant article, you two.
AskMen.com is probably one of the most vile websites I’ve come across. My sister recently linked me an article from that site called “10 Ways to Subtly Tell Your Girlfriend She’s Getting Fat”, or something similar. It might as well had been called “10 Ways To Ruin Your Girlfriend’s Self-Esteem and Give Her an Eating Disorder”. It included such colourful suggestions as purposefully buying clothes for her that you know are way too small, serving tiny portions at dinner (this tip included the phrase “by making her ask for more, you might succeed in shaming her into admitting she’s gotten fat”, and reminding you that you can just sneak off and eat later when she isn’t looking), leaving “now and then” photographs lying around (“if she confronts you about trying to shame her into losing weight, the key approach here is denial, as you reply: “Do you actually think I would be that manipulative?” Of course you would, but she doesn’t need to know that.”) and sabotaging furniture, so chairs will collapse when she sits down on them!
The fact that this website thinks that “shaming” women into conforming to their expectations makes me sick. So I’m glad to see them called out here, even though this particular article wasn’t nearly as horrible.
“The books and speeches frequently given in times past on the topic of manliness and manhood have ceased. Mentors have disappeared.”
I had no mentor other than the fictional Zarathusthra, from one of Friedrich Nietzsche’s books. My brother had no mentor, now he’s the regular nine-to-five joe, withouth any ambition or vision. He once made fun of his boss since his boss was working from nine to five and from five to nine, in short, all day long, for something “as small as a company”.
My dad looked very dissapointed when my brother said that, and I think he wondered where he (my dad) had failed in raising his oldest son.
After that, he raised the amount of work I had to do at home, and checked more often wether or not I did my work well, and, after hours of being send back and doing the job again since it was not close enough to perfection, he rewarded me for my work by simple appriciation.
I guess he tries to raise me in a better way than he raised my brother. But however my dad might push it, I would not have gone back to do the same job over and over again if it weren’t for this website and that book, Thus Spake Zarathusthra.
We need both the mentors and the books and speeches to become men again. Now, this website functions well as the books and speeches, but that alone won’t make a man a man, a man needs a mentor as well.
On the other side, a mentor alone won’t make a man a man, since the man needs to outgrow his mentor, and needs to find his own path, rather than the path of his mentor.
Thanks for the speeches and the books, I’m not an adult yet, but I’m on my way to become a man, other than my easily-satisfied brother. Thanks to you.
Brett, you nailed it, and Max, you stole my thunder with your spot-on observation about moral relativism (tip o’ the hat to you). As Dash said in “The Incredibles,” “If everyone’s special, then no one is.” The same is true of manliness – if there’s no cultural standard of manliness and everyone who has an extra Y chromosome is manly, then flamboyant skater Johnny Weir should be an example for us all.
Lang’s writing has an undercurrent of permissiveness, advocating that doing what comes naturally is right and “okay,” and a male who thoughtlessly follows that doctrine is “manly” by default. His writing belies a kind of politically correct, “I don’t want to judge others, lest I might also be held to a higher standard” thinking that continues to excuse any type of behavior, and that has facilitated our slide into a morass of moral, ethical and cultural relativism. Extrapolate the “logic” of this relativism and we negate all levels of distinction – good, bad, right, wrong, male, female. Forget what I said about Johnny Weir. Chromosomes don’t matter. Gender doesn’t matter. Why not make Lady Gaga the standard of manliness?
Brett, you correctly asserted that it is the conscious struggle and the thoughtful attempt to adhere to a set of guiding principles that makes us men. Otherwise, we fall into self-centered, self-destructive behavior. While it is instructive to acknowledge and understand our base selves, excusing our base behavior does not make us men. It is our conscious attempt to rise above these tendencies that makes us men.
I also agree that Lang presents a false dichotomy in asserting that a manly man is a man of action and not a contemplative man. Yes, there are times for thought and there are times for action. However, the two characteristics are not mutually exclusive, and most men who lead their lives acting without thinking make many poor decisions, decisions that negatively impact them and those around them. I’ve worked hard to overcome my weaknesses and destructive tendencies, because it’s been my observation that people who fail to do so are rarely successful in life. These people not only negatively impact their own lives, but also the lives of those around them. Ultimately, their lives become cautionary examples of what not to do, rather than models to emulate.
Aspiring to be manly is not simply an attempt to gratify one’s own ego or succeed as an individual. It’s also an attempt live one’s life as positive example for others to observe and emulate, helping them to succeed in life, and, ultimately, to foster a strong community and a strong culture.
Askmen.com demonstrates everything I dislike about modern men’s sites/magazines: obsessed with image, gyms, machoism, hot girls, status as a alpha-male, “power & money” as one of the drop down tabs is titled! While to an extent I can see where the guy who wrote that article is coming on some points, on a whole I found his argument pretty backwards and negative. The truth is that if men don’t look into their own lives – which masculinity, biologically, mentally, spiritually takes a big part of – then they’ll continue the cycle of unemotionless, macho behaviour that many fathers showed us before. This is the reason I am drawn back to this site again and again, because as well as the appreciation of other smaller, more trivial yet nonetheless enjoyable manly pleasures and lifestyle advice; it more importantly helps consider the really important aspects of life a truer sense of what masculinity is within your own self and how you can improve it by learning from others.
One time, when an ex-gf of mine and I were reflecting on the good and bad some time after the relationship ended, I said to her that I guess at the time I just didn’t know how to make some things work at that particular point in my life. Her reply to my admission of ignorance was that I should have naturally known how to make a relationship work as if it were some innate quality.
Years later and after 2 failed marriages and three children left to grow up without a responsible dad (she only had one son when I was with her), I’m glad I had to “learn” how to have a successful relationship, rather than “just knowing” like her.
Bravo, AoM.
Great article! AoM always promotes such wondrous truths.
My wife and I moved from Hawaii where we had lived for 20 years to Oklahoma to be close to our six pre adolescent grandsons. The reason: we want them to know how to be strong, thoughtful, productive men. You’re right that the current crop young fathers and husbands have been left to sort it out for themselves and generally are adrift. While we miss the islands, we welcome the opportunity to be a part of shaping the lives of these boys with the goal of seeing young men who know who they are and how to be manly men in every facet of their lives. I’m sure their future wives will be thankful, as will their coworkers, friends and society in general.
The only thing I find problematic about this site is that the owner appears to need his wife’s permission and consent to have an opinion on what makes a man. Too many articles signed by Brett & Kate. Doesn’t Brett have his own ideas?
Just went to take a peak at “askmen.com” and almost immediately closed the page in disqust. If thats what they think manliness is, no wonder they think its inborn. They’re promoting the same childish behavior, entertainment, etc, that my friends and I took part in in highschool and the beginning of college. If manliness is shaming your girlfriend into losing weight by embarrasing her and watching bad action movies, I want no part of it. Thanks for the great article Brett. Nice to know there’s someone out there pushing guys to rise above their baser selves and work to improve themselves.
Brett McKay: XY
Ian Lang: 0
Great job sir. Keep up the good work!
Here’s something I read a few years ago that addresses the same issue from a slightly different angle, via C.S. Lewis’ The Chronicles of Narnia. (Hope it’s ok to post links…)
http://rj-anderson.livejournal.com/176635.html
It seems to me that Mr. Lang does not truly understand the purpose of AOM or why it seems to speak to so many of us. AOM is not about masculine vs. feminine; it is about manhood growing from boyhood. We have a society of adult males who don’t have the social or practical skills to function as men. I find that the site addresses these gaps while interspersing the lessons with food for thought.
While my father and grandfather would not necessarily applaud my use of a straight razor for shaving per se, they would (and did) take pride in what it meant that their child had reached that stage in his life. I was fortunate to have had a number of strong role models in my life and they instilled their lessons by living their lives the right way. I do my utmost to live up to the legacy that these fine men left to me and pass that legacy on to my children, both of whom are boys.
Keep up the good work. Reading the responses, I see some people missed the point – but the two of you are doing an amazing job. I’m in agreement with everything you’ve said here.
Thanks AoM.
btw, they are called “lad mags” for a reason…
It is true that masculinity encompasses a broad spectrum,
The two ends of the manliness spectrum:
Ask Men = Objectify Women, Indulge your desire for sex, power, money, and anything else that exalts self = a thuggish slave to his addictions
AoM = Self-Discipline, Virtue, Appreciation of women, striking the balance between natural vigor and responsibilities to dependents = a strong man
“Man is made or unmade by himself; in the armory of thought he forges the weapons by which he destroys himself. He also fashions the tools with which he builds for himself heavenly mansions of joy and strength and peace. By the right choice and true application of thought, man ascends to the Divine Perfection; by the abuse and wrong application of thought, he descends below the level of the beast. Between these two extremes are all the grades of character, and man is their maker and master.” James Allen
Brett and Kate–great response. I agree with you and Lee that Askmen is a vile, trashy site, and would wager that Lang’s article has increased the readership of AoM! Keep up the good work!
Brett,
A huge tip of the hat to you.
Wonderful article, as usual.
B.
My father taught me how to be a man. He taught me to keep my mouth shut and my eyes and ears open around elders. He taught me all work is good. He taught me that when others seek to derail you hold true to your own path, but make sure you know where your going. Manliness is not an end goal. Manliness ,the art of being a man, is a journey. We start it as children and God willing are accompanied by our fathers and our sons. We never get where we are going, but the art in manliness is the way we walked.
Your site has been an inspiration to myself and the men around me. It has encouraged us to capture the style and attitude that we may have lost. It has made us rethink the way we go about our days. It has sparked a desire in me to try things I haven/t done since i was a child. I am going camping with my wife, playing sports with my friends. Taking pride in my appearance and my work. We get so lost today in the daily grind and the constant reminders to be less manly and more feminine. Your site is serving a great purpose. keep up the good work. I am reminded of a courage wolf saying, “They want you to fail, because they don’t want to be alone”
Very nice.
Regarding Thad Johnsons comment; I have high doubts these articles are being hindered with the addition of a female voice. Its not like Brett has not written any articles by himself.
To that note, Brett, much respect with your efforts. I think it might be quit refreshing to have a strictly female voice write an article (if there is hasn’t been any already done) on her opinion or on matters concerning manliness/manhood/maleness/opposite-o-boyhood. From my personal experience, and unfortunate to say, some of my most influencial role-models that helped me develop into a man have been women. My undergrad advisor, former boss, and a former student friend of mine.
“But the real danger in this resurgence of interest in manliness is not that it’s making men wimpy as Lang argues–quite the opposite as we’ve just discussed. Rather, the danger is that manliness will come to be seen as just another passing trend, like metrosexuality.”
A lot of truth in this post, hopefully people will listen.
The more I thought about it, the more I came to see that the definition of a “manly” man is a cultural ideal of a sort and as such would require some sort of normative measure—that is, to discover what the cultural ideal is in terms of actions rather than as statements made in response to surveys and the like. That is, what representative men do fathers admire (and thus, the sons of those fathers strive to emulate)? Would Gandhi reflect (say) a US cultural norm? Lots of fathers overtly expressing admiration for Gandhi and telling their sons to grow up to be like him? I don’t think so.
I think the norms of what men are most admired and emulated would be interesting. Clearly, there are many who emulate Elvis Presley, for example. Humor there, but only some: a great many try (or want) to emulate a generic rock star/celebrity type, either specifically or generically. Indeed, I would be that the cultural norms of emulated men would go heavily on the celebrity vs. historic side.
Hmmm, personally I wish you had stuck by your commitment to not respond to this sort of stuff. Think about what you’re doing, do it if it feels right, and damn everybody else. Pretty much the essence of manliness to me. Don’t waste time responding to this sort of stuff.
agrees with @Stephen in theory , but l would have rebuked and so would most of us .
To me , manliness is knowing that you still have a lot to learn , and that you are mature enough to seek it out or listen to it when it is presented to you , that said , l will keep coming back here , take on board what is good for me , and move forward .
PS : who gives a shit if something advised here is a more expensive exercise as long as it gives pleasure to the participant .
A mentor once gave me a list of qualities belonging to boys vs. those belonging to men, which I keep near my desk. Here are a few from the list:
- A boy looks to have fun. A man looks to do his duty.
- A boy is infatuated with the immediate. A man looks to ultimate consequences.
- A boy is mainly self-focused. A man looks out for others.
- A boy is easily forgetful of responsibility. A man desires responsibility.
- A boy views women as a source of self-indulgence. A man looks to protect and care for women.
- A boy wants a mother. A man wants a wife.
This is just the beginning of the list, but Lang clearly stands out as a boy when viewed against this backdrop. As long as Mr. Lang holds the attitudes expressed in the article, he will continue to be a boy, not a man. For some reason he and those like him have felt a need to rush to the silliest part of their lives and stay there for as long as they can. I hope maturity and biology are able to move them past that. They would do well to take and class or two in art. Especially if their classroom is the real world and the art is…THE ART OF MANLINESS.
I’m going to have to agree with just about everything Craig said above. While AskMen is filled with pictures of flashy cars and women, AoM is filled with pictures of men doing “Manly” things like camping or fishing. Who’s to say which is worse?
dude, you totally started a flame war…..
and i will flame to the death for your site.
You guys are insane. I mean literally insane. What on earth drives and inspires this kind of cultish fanaticism and reverence for this website? If you ask me, I think this website and everyone who comments on it is incredibly self-righteous and smug.
Who’s to say the way you’re living your lives is right? You all speak of “us”, as if you’re part of some kind of enlightened community that “get’s it” while the rest of us drift through life aimlessly. If anything, I think the tone expressed here and the ire directed towards Lang’s article in general comes from a place of insecurity and doubt. Were Lang’s arguments to be held as truth, then this site and your entire approach to life would cease to be relevent. I suppose if my entire basis for existing were based off of the musings of one man on a website, I would get pretty upset at any detractors too.
Btw, Lang posted a response article yesterday, and he’s absolutely spot on. This site is entirely too self-serving and tries to turn something basic into an academic exercise. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OFF OF YOU. By falling in line and blindly pledging your allegance to any one site, you are drinking the kool aid.
I like a lot of what Brett posts here, but the “community” is what drives me away.
I don’t look to a website on how to be a man. I luckily had many role models from the many male member of my family as well as male teachers and boyscouts..etc. I do like the website to educate me on how to do things (manly or not).
However, not all boys have had as many male role models as I have had. In which case use this website or pick another. I don’t think it is wrong to learn and educate youself by finding a website that you enjoy. Maybe you will find a role model, maybe not.
Boys without male role models is the central premise of “Lord of the Flies” anyone read it?
Thank you for this great article! I discovered AofM this past year, and it has been a big help to me. Brett, keep up your good work!
@chris>>I see nothing wrong with having some feminine traits and still being manly. After all, a true man should temper action (masculine) with compassion and care (feminine.) A bully isn’t a real man nor is someone who lets themselves be stomped on. A real man is someone who is in balance with both of these sides of himself and is better for it.
After all, the word “gentleman” is both Gentle and man..
Oh yes, also.
Remember chemistry kits? At one time we did say “You’re interested in science.. here have this stuff and figure it out.”
Brett,
Thanks for the excellent expression of manliness in this article! I appreciate your clear manner of communicating this journey to those who do not understand its meaning.
John Brown
@Craig
With respect, Brett and those who write for this site are manly echoing long established principles. That is why they resonate deeply with so many.
BTW, does askmen.com also get money for each visit to their site?
Steven Carpenters post brought on some thoughts. Does a mentor have to be a man? I say no, though perhaps it is not good to not have a good male role model. I do know that it was my mother and female friends, not my father, who taught me why I must be courteous. Sure I knew how to from what my mother and father taught me, but without the women in my life I would not understand why to be and therefore how to be effectively. Do not underestimate the power of a female mentor. They can feminize a man or make him more manly. It all depends on her view of what a manly man should be.
Additionally, I read the article in question and the AOM article and I agree with many other readers that askmen is not a site about what I would consider to be about manliness. However, I do agree with a few commenters that getting all of your information about being a man from one man on a website is not a smart decision. That’s why I love that Brett fill the site with his own material. He also provides links to other sources of how to be a man. He knows he should not be the final authority on this subject and appears to try to make sure we don’t think so either. Personally, this is the best site I have found dedicated to this subject; but it’s far from my only source on how to be a man. It’s not even near the top of the list. (That would be my father and my Bible.)
In my mind the mark of a true man is high and absolute moral standards. If he holds himself to them then he is a good man. If he holds others to them as well then he is a great man. If he knows why he has these standards and will teach them to the other men and women in his life so that they may pass them on then he is a truly manly man.
Thank you, Brett, for this excellent website.
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