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	<title>Comments on: The Art of Manliness Podcast Episode #36: The Decline of Males with Dr. Lionel Tiger</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/</link>
	<description>Men&#039;s Interests and Lifestyle</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 20 Jun 2013 03:44:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Benjamin in Australia</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-147294</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin in Australia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 02:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-147294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Even though Dr. Tiger&#039;s rhetoric is sometimes militant and aggressive, I think he makes quite clear the inequality in services and support for men and boys in the west. The issue about Ritalin is a very frightening one and I agree that schools and universities in Australia, as well as the US, favour an approach to masculinity which fails to support or encourage and instead punishes or &quot;medicates&quot;. Overwhelming guilt is a feeling I think a lot of young men, like myself, feel about our own masculinity, and this attitude is fostered by those systems of education in which we are &quot;nurtured&quot; (confined) for 12 of the most formative and influential years of our life. It takes an outstanding parent or teacher to keep a boy from developing this feeling towards his sex. I think if we are to achieve an equality between the sexes (economic, social, political) then we need to have male studies programs and more support for men and boys.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though Dr. Tiger&#8217;s rhetoric is sometimes militant and aggressive, I think he makes quite clear the inequality in services and support for men and boys in the west. The issue about Ritalin is a very frightening one and I agree that schools and universities in Australia, as well as the US, favour an approach to masculinity which fails to support or encourage and instead punishes or &#8220;medicates&#8221;. Overwhelming guilt is a feeling I think a lot of young men, like myself, feel about our own masculinity, and this attitude is fostered by those systems of education in which we are &#8220;nurtured&#8221; (confined) for 12 of the most formative and influential years of our life. It takes an outstanding parent or teacher to keep a boy from developing this feeling towards his sex. I think if we are to achieve an equality between the sexes (economic, social, political) then we need to have male studies programs and more support for men and boys.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: banneker77</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143822</link>
		<dc:creator>banneker77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 00:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143822</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would not like to see the future of this nation or other western nations, that would squander it&#039;s masculinity with some, its already gone (may have to keep my 2nd amendment when some fool yells Allah Akbar)--I hope I don&#039;t see my baby daughter having to share a boyfriend since she likes guys that seem sure of themselves, not just dudes on videogames while she brings home all the bacon, since she is a CEO and they have kids under 5. This generation of girls and guys seem ok on what is going on BUT what about FUTURE GENERATIONS. Girls could fight, take care of themselves, etc. but MOST wont want to share a boyfriend with another girl if there isn&#039;t no strong sure men around-some of you guys seem to be raising upright boys and I commend you for that, but what about others; I&#039;m thinking about being a mentor for some boys who don&#039;t have dads]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not like to see the future of this nation or other western nations, that would squander it&#8217;s masculinity with some, its already gone (may have to keep my 2nd amendment when some fool yells Allah Akbar)&#8211;I hope I don&#8217;t see my baby daughter having to share a boyfriend since she likes guys that seem sure of themselves, not just dudes on videogames while she brings home all the bacon, since she is a CEO and they have kids under 5. This generation of girls and guys seem ok on what is going on BUT what about FUTURE GENERATIONS. Girls could fight, take care of themselves, etc. but MOST wont want to share a boyfriend with another girl if there isn&#8217;t no strong sure men around-some of you guys seem to be raising upright boys and I commend you for that, but what about others; I&#8217;m thinking about being a mentor for some boys who don&#8217;t have dads</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: banneker77</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143821</link>
		<dc:creator>banneker77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 23:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143821</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What isn&#039;t good for men isn&#039;t good for woman either! I know that most women want to be married and have kids someday, but not all. Even though in the past, men started being roughshod over women and not at all nice, the women had standards- I would HATE for my daughter to join the MARINES since work like that belongs to MEN ONLY (the systems of women are more delicate PMS on some, and their knees come at odd angles because of hips; the little surfer girl is unusual). What I see happening is, in Highschools, or where there is groups of teens out, the guys aren&#039;t being close to their girlfriends-wouldn&#039;t  want my daughter to be with a guy that wont at least try to be affectionate;although he may be scared of ME--a wimpy boy wouldn&#039;t protect my daughter when need be, and please, don&#039;t have your daughters drive their &#039;dates&#039; around town because it looks bad..You know what I think? women in the past &#039;pretended&#039; not to know how to do certain things so we guys would be helpful, and isn&#039;t that what makes life worth living?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What isn&#8217;t good for men isn&#8217;t good for woman either! I know that most women want to be married and have kids someday, but not all. Even though in the past, men started being roughshod over women and not at all nice, the women had standards- I would HATE for my daughter to join the MARINES since work like that belongs to MEN ONLY (the systems of women are more delicate PMS on some, and their knees come at odd angles because of hips; the little surfer girl is unusual). What I see happening is, in Highschools, or where there is groups of teens out, the guys aren&#8217;t being close to their girlfriends-wouldn&#8217;t  want my daughter to be with a guy that wont at least try to be affectionate;although he may be scared of ME&#8211;a wimpy boy wouldn&#8217;t protect my daughter when need be, and please, don&#8217;t have your daughters drive their &#8216;dates&#8217; around town because it looks bad..You know what I think? women in the past &#8216;pretended&#8217; not to know how to do certain things so we guys would be helpful, and isn&#8217;t that what makes life worth living?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143359</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In response to a misinformed commenter:
The U.S. is a nation of religious freedom and tolerance.
It was not ever a nation ruled by, belonging to or devoted to any one religion.
The Constitution and Declaration are on the internet and can be reviewed very easily.
&quot;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion&quot;
Check it out some time.

I rarely comment like this - but I have two hot-button issues - man bashing, and the wrongheaded idea that the U.S. is a &quot;Christian Nation.&quot;
Sorry for the rant all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to a misinformed commenter:<br />
The U.S. is a nation of religious freedom and tolerance.<br />
It was not ever a nation ruled by, belonging to or devoted to any one religion.<br />
The Constitution and Declaration are on the internet and can be reviewed very easily.<br />
&#8220;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion&#8221;<br />
Check it out some time.</p>
<p>I rarely comment like this &#8211; but I have two hot-button issues &#8211; man bashing, and the wrongheaded idea that the U.S. is a &#8220;Christian Nation.&#8221;<br />
Sorry for the rant all.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143357</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just for those, like Pissed, who say that men will be needed as long as women want to have children. I point you to: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-prospect-of-allfemale-conception-444464.html

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/health/NATL-Synthetic-Sperm.html and so forth. Men really aren&#039;t wanted in this world, and it is getting more and more obvious. Again, I say just stand up and do what is right, and try to be the best that we can be to show the world that the words &quot;all men are dogs&quot; isn&#039;t acceptable, and constantly judging half of the human race by what they see on TV, or the guy who dumped them. Again, this isn&#039;t so much about women as the government, the constant war on male role-models by TV channels such as Disney where it is simply not done to have a competent male lead. The family court system doesn&#039;t help by constantly removing fathers, and again the school system which punishes maleness. 

All in all, there needs to be a change.. a non-violent change that will eventually occur, whether certain organizations want it to or not, and to that end we need websites like this and for men to be ready to again be the men they must be for the sake of future males.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for those, like Pissed, who say that men will be needed as long as women want to have children. I point you to: <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-prospect-of-allfemale-conception-444464.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-prospect-of-allfemale-conception-444464.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/health/NATL-Synthetic-Sperm.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/health/NATL-Synthetic-Sperm.html</a> and so forth. Men really aren&#8217;t wanted in this world, and it is getting more and more obvious. Again, I say just stand up and do what is right, and try to be the best that we can be to show the world that the words &#8220;all men are dogs&#8221; isn&#8217;t acceptable, and constantly judging half of the human race by what they see on TV, or the guy who dumped them. Again, this isn&#8217;t so much about women as the government, the constant war on male role-models by TV channels such as Disney where it is simply not done to have a competent male lead. The family court system doesn&#8217;t help by constantly removing fathers, and again the school system which punishes maleness. </p>
<p>All in all, there needs to be a change.. a non-violent change that will eventually occur, whether certain organizations want it to or not, and to that end we need websites like this and for men to be ready to again be the men they must be for the sake of future males.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Naomi</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143255</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 04:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting discussion going on that brings up some questions: Well, what does it mean to be a man, or a woman? And are we just balking at different, changing molds that define us? Do we even need these molds? And why is it so important for us to define ourselves, why cannot we just BE?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion going on that brings up some questions: Well, what does it mean to be a man, or a woman? And are we just balking at different, changing molds that define us? Do we even need these molds? And why is it so important for us to define ourselves, why cannot we just BE?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Punditus Maximus</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143202</link>
		<dc:creator>Punditus Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m amused by the protestations that a man is defined by hatred and domination of women.

Good luck with that, fellas.  I&#039;m sure your daughters will adore you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m amused by the protestations that a man is defined by hatred and domination of women.</p>
<p>Good luck with that, fellas.  I&#8217;m sure your daughters will adore you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Weedall</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143064</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Weedall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, I have more respect for Doctor Jeckyll than this clown.

And this comment section is really blinkin&#039; vitriolic for this site, the active woman blaming, the histeronics about religion and culture, the desperate &quot;won&#039;t somebody please think of the children&quot; and naked bitching about how it&#039;s all someone elses fault is just absolutely pathetic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I have more respect for Doctor Jeckyll than this clown.</p>
<p>And this comment section is really blinkin&#8217; vitriolic for this site, the active woman blaming, the histeronics about religion and culture, the desperate &#8220;won&#8217;t somebody please think of the children&#8221; and naked bitching about how it&#8217;s all someone elses fault is just absolutely pathetic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pissed.</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143059</link>
		<dc:creator>Pissed.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To put it bluntly till Women can start reproduction A-sexually and with enough bio-diversity to thwart off pesty things say things like plauges they are stuck with us.  When &quot;Men&quot; become harder and harder to find in the sea of ManBoys the rarity and scarcity will have women foaming at the mouths for every last one of us they can scrouge to find.  I bide my time thank you very much. MEN who are looking at the lopsided arrangments of modern coupling with malcontent at the growing population of ladies who care less for them and more about the size of the pocketbook they own. Every women I have talked to have arrogently look at me like a wallet with legs. They are wanting an ecconomic equal but an uneaven emotional and social agreement so I have all sent the packing.  Good men are hard to find indeed bacause those who have everything have no need for women who have just as much but demand 1/2 or more when they get bored and leave a possible marrage.  Prenups are simply a nessesity these days. Casual sex before marrage will get you on the hook, NOT her so while I am dating, I&#039;m not screwing around.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To put it bluntly till Women can start reproduction A-sexually and with enough bio-diversity to thwart off pesty things say things like plauges they are stuck with us.  When &#8220;Men&#8221; become harder and harder to find in the sea of ManBoys the rarity and scarcity will have women foaming at the mouths for every last one of us they can scrouge to find.  I bide my time thank you very much. MEN who are looking at the lopsided arrangments of modern coupling with malcontent at the growing population of ladies who care less for them and more about the size of the pocketbook they own. Every women I have talked to have arrogently look at me like a wallet with legs. They are wanting an ecconomic equal but an uneaven emotional and social agreement so I have all sent the packing.  Good men are hard to find indeed bacause those who have everything have no need for women who have just as much but demand 1/2 or more when they get bored and leave a possible marrage.  Prenups are simply a nessesity these days. Casual sex before marrage will get you on the hook, NOT her so while I am dating, I&#8217;m not screwing around.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brent Buchanan</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/03/24/the-art-of-manliness-podcast-episode-36-the-decline-of-males-with-dr-lionel-tiger/comment-page-1/#comment-143057</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Buchanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=16073#comment-143057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find some of these posts to be abhorrent. I listened to the first 30 seconds of this broadcast and had heard enough. The decline of men? Please. Men through the entire course of history to the present have obtained and maintained power. There is no decline of that in any foreseeable future. Now, i am not saying this is for good or for bad, but what I am saying is that there have been some very negative externalities that have been wrought by this &quot;maintenance of power&quot; if you will.

Women, having been subjugated to the whims of men for ages, finally are having a say, finally have a vote, but still do not even have equality. Professional women make less than men across the board, are chosen less for committees and are disproportionately underrepresented in politics; and when women are finally given an opportunity to better themselves, to be independent from men, we see it as frightening? Women do better in college and make more money than men in &quot;some&quot; areas, and suddenly we are falling behind? Women are still playing catch-up.

Men are no more falling behind than women are steadily trying to improve. But the strangest thing about the part of the podcast that i listened to was that it was not about a decline of morality in general, but a &quot;decline&quot; of men in comparison to women. We should be praising the fact that women are doing better, not fearing it. We should not look at ourselves as the cause, but look at women as their own catalyst; they took advantage of opportunities that were available and kept at it, and as commendable as their actions are (truly, i mean women are incredible), they still get the shaft when it comes to equal status. Not only that, but this podcast, and many posts here, are offering a response by trying to &quot;strengthen our manliness&quot; or something of that sort, by offering &quot;Men Studies&quot; as a legitimate subject and rendering us as some powerless minority/ victim/ threatened sex. 

Let me tell you how it is: Men are not declining in power, social status, ability to achieve, they are only declining from some short of a perceived golden era of mutual respect for the opposite sex, and some antiquated moral self-respect as well. I believe that this is to be seen as true in some posts here, where some are saying that &quot;women should be put in their place&quot; and &quot;bring manliness back&quot; and &quot;we need to have balls&quot;. What misogynistic comments What an utter lack of morality.

Men, as I see it, need not hark back to olden days where men were &quot;grand&quot; and exuded this false sense of manliness that you see in the movies, that you see portrayed in the concept of &quot;ideal&quot; manliness in the minds of many here that have been misled. Manliness is not simply some dutiful, provider hunter-fisher type who shaves with a straight edge and, according to some posters, one who makes his woman stay in the kitchen. Manliness is not something that is in decline, nor should be compared to the situation of women. Manliness, which by definition is accepting gender roles, is something much more general.

Manliness should not really be thought of as exclusive to males, but should be thought of as a more specific form of  general morality. It is not about being a man, it is about being a good person. It is not about providing, it is about giving or giving back. It is not about simply recognizing differences or looking at a situation from only your standpoint, it is about trying to understand all viewpoints. It is not about improving men, it is about improving society. When it boils down to it, many, both men and women, have been in decline moralistically. Now we live in a society that is inherently about &quot;I&quot;, not us. Men need not compete with women, we need to work with them, embrace their progress and success, and help them, as well as ourselves, to improve collectively.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find some of these posts to be abhorrent. I listened to the first 30 seconds of this broadcast and had heard enough. The decline of men? Please. Men through the entire course of history to the present have obtained and maintained power. There is no decline of that in any foreseeable future. Now, i am not saying this is for good or for bad, but what I am saying is that there have been some very negative externalities that have been wrought by this &#8220;maintenance of power&#8221; if you will.</p>
<p>Women, having been subjugated to the whims of men for ages, finally are having a say, finally have a vote, but still do not even have equality. Professional women make less than men across the board, are chosen less for committees and are disproportionately underrepresented in politics; and when women are finally given an opportunity to better themselves, to be independent from men, we see it as frightening? Women do better in college and make more money than men in &#8220;some&#8221; areas, and suddenly we are falling behind? Women are still playing catch-up.</p>
<p>Men are no more falling behind than women are steadily trying to improve. But the strangest thing about the part of the podcast that i listened to was that it was not about a decline of morality in general, but a &#8220;decline&#8221; of men in comparison to women. We should be praising the fact that women are doing better, not fearing it. We should not look at ourselves as the cause, but look at women as their own catalyst; they took advantage of opportunities that were available and kept at it, and as commendable as their actions are (truly, i mean women are incredible), they still get the shaft when it comes to equal status. Not only that, but this podcast, and many posts here, are offering a response by trying to &#8220;strengthen our manliness&#8221; or something of that sort, by offering &#8220;Men Studies&#8221; as a legitimate subject and rendering us as some powerless minority/ victim/ threatened sex. </p>
<p>Let me tell you how it is: Men are not declining in power, social status, ability to achieve, they are only declining from some short of a perceived golden era of mutual respect for the opposite sex, and some antiquated moral self-respect as well. I believe that this is to be seen as true in some posts here, where some are saying that &#8220;women should be put in their place&#8221; and &#8220;bring manliness back&#8221; and &#8220;we need to have balls&#8221;. What misogynistic comments What an utter lack of morality.</p>
<p>Men, as I see it, need not hark back to olden days where men were &#8220;grand&#8221; and exuded this false sense of manliness that you see in the movies, that you see portrayed in the concept of &#8220;ideal&#8221; manliness in the minds of many here that have been misled. Manliness is not simply some dutiful, provider hunter-fisher type who shaves with a straight edge and, according to some posters, one who makes his woman stay in the kitchen. Manliness is not something that is in decline, nor should be compared to the situation of women. Manliness, which by definition is accepting gender roles, is something much more general.</p>
<p>Manliness should not really be thought of as exclusive to males, but should be thought of as a more specific form of  general morality. It is not about being a man, it is about being a good person. It is not about providing, it is about giving or giving back. It is not about simply recognizing differences or looking at a situation from only your standpoint, it is about trying to understand all viewpoints. It is not about improving men, it is about improving society. When it boils down to it, many, both men and women, have been in decline moralistically. Now we live in a society that is inherently about &#8220;I&#8221;, not us. Men need not compete with women, we need to work with them, embrace their progress and success, and help them, as well as ourselves, to improve collectively.</p>
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