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	<title>Comments on: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision</title>
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	<description>Men&#039;s Interests and Lifestyle</description>
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		<title>By: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision - Truckers' Trucking Forum &#124; Largest CDL Truck Driver Message Board</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-99950</link>
		<dc:creator>Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision - Truckers' Trucking Forum &#124; Largest CDL Truck Driver Message Board</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2010 07:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-99950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] easily scandalized like a Victorian housewife, please go ahead and skip this article.[/QUOTE]  http://artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22...-circumcision/   __________________ KC  Forum Rules The Thanks Button Using Our Search Feature Click Here For [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] easily scandalized like a Victorian housewife, please go ahead and skip this article.[/QUOTE]  <a href="http://artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22" rel="nofollow">http://artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22</a>&#8230;-circumcision/   __________________ KC  Forum Rules The Thanks Button Using Our Search Feature Click Here For [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23093</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Lee - That is just fine. But it doesn&#039;t quite work for those who suffered significant complication from it. It happens more often than you think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lee &#8211; That is just fine. But it doesn&#8217;t quite work for those who suffered significant complication from it. It happens more often than you think.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23092</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems that the people who are in favor of infant circumcision tend to be women and circumcised men.  We rarely ever hear of any uncut men in favor of infant circumcision.  I think that says enough about the validity (or lack thereof) of so-called &quot;health benefits&quot; of routine infant circumcision.

Some women may prefer a circumcised penis because it looks cleaner.  In my opinion, that&#039;s no different from a man saying a vagina is dirty.  We need to have a mature attitude about genitalia and realize that what is natural is normal.  If nature/God had intended men not to have foreskin, then men wouldn&#039;t be born with foreskin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that the people who are in favor of infant circumcision tend to be women and circumcised men.  We rarely ever hear of any uncut men in favor of infant circumcision.  I think that says enough about the validity (or lack thereof) of so-called &#8220;health benefits&#8221; of routine infant circumcision.</p>
<p>Some women may prefer a circumcised penis because it looks cleaner.  In my opinion, that&#8217;s no different from a man saying a vagina is dirty.  We need to have a mature attitude about genitalia and realize that what is natural is normal.  If nature/God had intended men not to have foreskin, then men wouldn&#8217;t be born with foreskin.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23090</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[this is what the Butchers actually do...
Circumcision
What Is Lost?
http://mothersagainstcirc.org/lost.html
&quot;To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants
should be given accurate and unbiased information.&quot; 
Circumcision Policy Statement
American Academy of Pediatrics
March 1, 1999 
When a baby boy&#039;s normal intact penis is circumcised, this is what is lost -- forever:
*1. The foreskin, which comprises up to 50% (sometimes more) of the mobile skin system of the penis. If unfolded and spread out flat, the average adult foreskin would measure about 15 square inches (the size of a 3 x 5-inch index card). This highly specialized tissue normally covers the glans and protects it from abrasion, drying, callusing (keratinization), and contaminants of all kinds. The effect of glans keratinization on human sexuality has never been studied.
*2. The frenar band of soft ridges -- the primary erogenous zone of the male body. Loss of this delicate belt of densely innervated, sexually responsive tissue reduces the fullness and intensity of sexual response. 
*3. The foreskin&#039;s &quot;gliding action&quot;-- the hallmark mechanical feature of the normal, natural, intact penis. This non-abrasive gliding of the penis in and out of itself within the vagina facilitates smooth, comfortable, pleasurable intercourse for both partners. Without this gliding action, the corona of the circumcised penis can function as a one-way valve, scraping vaginal lubricants out into the drying air and making artificial lubricants essential for pleasurable intercourse.
*4. Thousands of coiled fine-touch mechanoreceptors called Meissner&#039;s corpuscles, the most important sensory component of the foreskin, encapsulated Vater-Pacinian cells, Merkel&#039;s cells, nociceptors, and branches of the dorsal nerve and perineal nerve. Altogether, between 10,000 and 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which can feel slight motion and stretch, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture are lost.
*5. The frenulum, the highly erogenous V-shaped web-like tethering structure on the underside of the glans; frequently amputated along with the foreskin, or severed, either of which destroys its function and potential for pleasure. 
6. Approximately half of the temperature-sensitive smooth muscle sheath called the dartos fascia.
7. The immunological defense system of the soft mucosa. This produces both plasma cells that secrete immunoglobulin antibodies and antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as the pathogen-killing enzyme lysozyme.
8. Lymphatic vessels, the loss of which reduces the lymph flow within that part of the body&#039;s immune system.
9. Estrogen receptors - the purpose of which is not yet fully understood and needs further study.

*10. The apocrine glands of the inner foreskin, which produce pheromones - nature&#039;s powerful, silent, invisible behavioral signals to potential sexual partners. The effect of their absence on human sexuality has never been studied.
*11. Sebaceous glands, which lubricate and moisturize the foreskin and glans, normally a protected internal organ - like the tongue or vagina.
12. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, a first line component of the body&#039;s immune system in a whole penis.
13. The pink to red to dark purple natural coloration of the glans. The connective tissue which protectively fuses the foreskin and glans together while the penis develops is ripped apart during circumcision, wounding the glans and the foreskin remnant, leaving them raw and subject to infection, scarring, pitting, shrinkage, and eventual discoloration.
*14. Some of the penis length and penis circumference because its double-layered wrapping of loose and usually overhanging foreskin is now missing, making the circumcised penis truncated and thinner than a full-sized intact penis.
*15. Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery. The loss of this rich vascularity interrupts normal blood flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, damaging the natural function of the penis and altering its development.
16. Every year boys lose their entire penises from circumcision accidents and infections. They are then &quot;sexually reassigned&quot; by castration and &quot;transgender surgery,&quot; and expected to live their lives as &quot;females.&quot;
17. Every year many boys lose their lives from the complications of circumcision, a fact the billion-dollar-a-year circumcision industry in the U.S. obscures and ignores.
18. By encoding violence on the brain the infant&#039;s bonding with its mother is disrupted, with indications that the innate sense of trust in intimate physical contact is inhibited or lost, and in its place a sense of betrayal is instilled in the infant.
(*19. Although never studied scientifically, contemporary evidence suggests that a penis without its foreskin lacks the capacity for the subtle neurological &quot;cross-communication&quot; that occurs only during contact between mucous membranes and which contributes to the experience of sexual pleasure. Amputating an infant boy&#039;s multi-functional foreskin is a &quot;low-grade neurological castration&quot; [Immerman], which diminishes the intensity of the entire sexual experience for both the circumcised male and his partner.)

*Loss of each of these items reduces sexual pleasure, gratification, and fulfillment.
Immerman, R. S. and Mackey, W.C., &quot;A Proposed Relationship Between Circumcision and Neural Reorganization,&quot; J of Genetic Psych, 1998.
Immerman, R. S. and Mackey, W. C., &quot;A biocultural analysis of circumcision,&quot; Social Biology 1998;4:265-275


Compiled by Gary L. Harryman glharryman@aol.com
4/6/99 - Last Revision 5/25/99

See Also: Glossary
Return to Mothers Against Circumcision Homepage]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is what the Butchers actually do&#8230;<br />
Circumcision<br />
What Is Lost?<br />
<a href="http://mothersagainstcirc.org/lost.html" rel="nofollow">http://mothersagainstcirc.org/lost.html</a><br />
&#8220;To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants<br />
should be given accurate and unbiased information.&#8221;<br />
Circumcision Policy Statement<br />
American Academy of Pediatrics<br />
March 1, 1999<br />
When a baby boy&#8217;s normal intact penis is circumcised, this is what is lost &#8212; forever:<br />
*1. The foreskin, which comprises up to 50% (sometimes more) of the mobile skin system of the penis. If unfolded and spread out flat, the average adult foreskin would measure about 15 square inches (the size of a 3 x 5-inch index card). This highly specialized tissue normally covers the glans and protects it from abrasion, drying, callusing (keratinization), and contaminants of all kinds. The effect of glans keratinization on human sexuality has never been studied.<br />
*2. The frenar band of soft ridges &#8212; the primary erogenous zone of the male body. Loss of this delicate belt of densely innervated, sexually responsive tissue reduces the fullness and intensity of sexual response.<br />
*3. The foreskin&#8217;s &#8220;gliding action&#8221;&#8211; the hallmark mechanical feature of the normal, natural, intact penis. This non-abrasive gliding of the penis in and out of itself within the vagina facilitates smooth, comfortable, pleasurable intercourse for both partners. Without this gliding action, the corona of the circumcised penis can function as a one-way valve, scraping vaginal lubricants out into the drying air and making artificial lubricants essential for pleasurable intercourse.<br />
*4. Thousands of coiled fine-touch mechanoreceptors called Meissner&#8217;s corpuscles, the most important sensory component of the foreskin, encapsulated Vater-Pacinian cells, Merkel&#8217;s cells, nociceptors, and branches of the dorsal nerve and perineal nerve. Altogether, between 10,000 and 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which can feel slight motion and stretch, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture are lost.<br />
*5. The frenulum, the highly erogenous V-shaped web-like tethering structure on the underside of the glans; frequently amputated along with the foreskin, or severed, either of which destroys its function and potential for pleasure.<br />
6. Approximately half of the temperature-sensitive smooth muscle sheath called the dartos fascia.<br />
7. The immunological defense system of the soft mucosa. This produces both plasma cells that secrete immunoglobulin antibodies and antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as the pathogen-killing enzyme lysozyme.<br />
8. Lymphatic vessels, the loss of which reduces the lymph flow within that part of the body&#8217;s immune system.<br />
9. Estrogen receptors &#8211; the purpose of which is not yet fully understood and needs further study.</p>
<p>*10. The apocrine glands of the inner foreskin, which produce pheromones &#8211; nature&#8217;s powerful, silent, invisible behavioral signals to potential sexual partners. The effect of their absence on human sexuality has never been studied.<br />
*11. Sebaceous glands, which lubricate and moisturize the foreskin and glans, normally a protected internal organ &#8211; like the tongue or vagina.<br />
12. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, a first line component of the body&#8217;s immune system in a whole penis.<br />
13. The pink to red to dark purple natural coloration of the glans. The connective tissue which protectively fuses the foreskin and glans together while the penis develops is ripped apart during circumcision, wounding the glans and the foreskin remnant, leaving them raw and subject to infection, scarring, pitting, shrinkage, and eventual discoloration.<br />
*14. Some of the penis length and penis circumference because its double-layered wrapping of loose and usually overhanging foreskin is now missing, making the circumcised penis truncated and thinner than a full-sized intact penis.<br />
*15. Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery. The loss of this rich vascularity interrupts normal blood flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, damaging the natural function of the penis and altering its development.<br />
16. Every year boys lose their entire penises from circumcision accidents and infections. They are then &#8220;sexually reassigned&#8221; by castration and &#8220;transgender surgery,&#8221; and expected to live their lives as &#8220;females.&#8221;<br />
17. Every year many boys lose their lives from the complications of circumcision, a fact the billion-dollar-a-year circumcision industry in the U.S. obscures and ignores.<br />
18. By encoding violence on the brain the infant&#8217;s bonding with its mother is disrupted, with indications that the innate sense of trust in intimate physical contact is inhibited or lost, and in its place a sense of betrayal is instilled in the infant.<br />
(*19. Although never studied scientifically, contemporary evidence suggests that a penis without its foreskin lacks the capacity for the subtle neurological &#8220;cross-communication&#8221; that occurs only during contact between mucous membranes and which contributes to the experience of sexual pleasure. Amputating an infant boy&#8217;s multi-functional foreskin is a &#8220;low-grade neurological castration&#8221; [Immerman], which diminishes the intensity of the entire sexual experience for both the circumcised male and his partner.)</p>
<p>*Loss of each of these items reduces sexual pleasure, gratification, and fulfillment.<br />
Immerman, R. S. and Mackey, W.C., &#8220;A Proposed Relationship Between Circumcision and Neural Reorganization,&#8221; J of Genetic Psych, 1998.<br />
Immerman, R. S. and Mackey, W. C., &#8220;A biocultural analysis of circumcision,&#8221; Social Biology 1998;4:265-275</p>
<p>Compiled by Gary L. Harryman <a href="mailto:glharryman@aol.com">glharryman@aol.com</a><br />
4/6/99 &#8211; Last Revision 5/25/99</p>
<p>See Also: Glossary<br />
Return to Mothers Against Circumcision Homepage</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23089</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23089</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Honestly, I really don&#039;t care either way on this topic.  I am circumsised and have friends who are and are not.  Heck, I remember one night a bunch of us were sitting around a campfire when someone broached the topic as they ran into the protesters of circumsision.  None of us had even heard that this was such a big deal.  We talked and laughed about it, listedn as we were told the reasons against circumsision and honestly still didn&#039;t care.

The tip of my penis does not define me as a man.  I can still get hard, I still have immense pleasure and can pleasure my woman.  There is not a single part of me that does not work and that I do not enjoy.  I am not less of a man and I think nothing less of my father.

Sorry, but if you are one of those that can only define yourself by whether you have some skin over your penis or not, you really aren&#039;t much of a man to begin with.  

I just can&#039;t care about this topic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, I really don&#8217;t care either way on this topic.  I am circumsised and have friends who are and are not.  Heck, I remember one night a bunch of us were sitting around a campfire when someone broached the topic as they ran into the protesters of circumsision.  None of us had even heard that this was such a big deal.  We talked and laughed about it, listedn as we were told the reasons against circumsision and honestly still didn&#8217;t care.</p>
<p>The tip of my penis does not define me as a man.  I can still get hard, I still have immense pleasure and can pleasure my woman.  There is not a single part of me that does not work and that I do not enjoy.  I am not less of a man and I think nothing less of my father.</p>
<p>Sorry, but if you are one of those that can only define yourself by whether you have some skin over your penis or not, you really aren&#8217;t much of a man to begin with.  </p>
<p>I just can&#8217;t care about this topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Samson</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23087</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Samson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Well I have a child on the way and my wife and I both agree if it is a boy he will be circumcised. Our basis for this was disease. The studies showing that it is harder to contract HIV just made up our mind.&quot;

 You do know that these studies claiming this were seriously flawed, and that this reduction is not seen in the real world--in fact, the opposite? One needs to critically analyze any claim for a benefit for circumcision. Over the 100+ years of these claims of benefits, and not a single one has stood. This track record speaks volumes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Well I have a child on the way and my wife and I both agree if it is a boy he will be circumcised. Our basis for this was disease. The studies showing that it is harder to contract HIV just made up our mind.&#8221;</p>
<p> You do know that these studies claiming this were seriously flawed, and that this reduction is not seen in the real world&#8211;in fact, the opposite? One needs to critically analyze any claim for a benefit for circumcision. Over the 100+ years of these claims of benefits, and not a single one has stood. This track record speaks volumes.</p>
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		<title>By: Mork</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23086</link>
		<dc:creator>Mork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23086</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a point on the argument about &#039;looking like your dad.&#039;  I&#039;m circumcised and my dad is too.  But if I have a son, I don&#039;t think I will circumcise him.  I don&#039;t feel a need to have him look like me in that way.  And even if I did, that wouldn&#039;t seem like a good enough reason.  It&#039;s part of parenting to respond to your kid&#039;s questions with age-appropriate answers.  So when a son asks a father why his dinger looks different, the father should tell him the age-appropriate truth.  Like, &quot;I was born in a country where they do that...&quot;  Or &quot;Back then it was normal to do that, now it isn&#039;t so much.&quot;  The kid will be on to other questions in no time, like why yours is hairy and his isn&#039;t.  And then you give another age-appropriate answer to that.  Incidently, I grew up in a country where I was the only circumcised boy around.  I asked my dad about it and he told me, &quot;They don&#039;t circumcise here as much as in America.&quot;  That was good enough for me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a point on the argument about &#8216;looking like your dad.&#8217;  I&#8217;m circumcised and my dad is too.  But if I have a son, I don&#8217;t think I will circumcise him.  I don&#8217;t feel a need to have him look like me in that way.  And even if I did, that wouldn&#8217;t seem like a good enough reason.  It&#8217;s part of parenting to respond to your kid&#8217;s questions with age-appropriate answers.  So when a son asks a father why his dinger looks different, the father should tell him the age-appropriate truth.  Like, &#8220;I was born in a country where they do that&#8230;&#8221;  Or &#8220;Back then it was normal to do that, now it isn&#8217;t so much.&#8221;  The kid will be on to other questions in no time, like why yours is hairy and his isn&#8217;t.  And then you give another age-appropriate answer to that.  Incidently, I grew up in a country where I was the only circumcised boy around.  I asked my dad about it and he told me, &#8220;They don&#8217;t circumcise here as much as in America.&#8221;  That was good enough for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23084</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding any studies that supposedly show that it&#039;s harder to get a disease when circumcised, I have to question that argument.  I don&#039;t really see how removal of the foreskin would make it any harder to get HIV or penile cancer.  If you&#039;re really concerned about getting a disease, you can use a condom, or don&#039;t have sex; I think removal of the foreskin is going a little too far.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding any studies that supposedly show that it&#8217;s harder to get a disease when circumcised, I have to question that argument.  I don&#8217;t really see how removal of the foreskin would make it any harder to get HIV or penile cancer.  If you&#8217;re really concerned about getting a disease, you can use a condom, or don&#8217;t have sex; I think removal of the foreskin is going a little too far.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23083</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well I have a child on the way and my wife and I both agree if it is a boy he will be circumcised. Our basis for this was disease. The studies showing that it is harder to contract HIV just made up our mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I have a child on the way and my wife and I both agree if it is a boy he will be circumcised. Our basis for this was disease. The studies showing that it is harder to contract HIV just made up our mind.</p>
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		<title>By: miss morgan potts</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/comment-page-2/#comment-23079</link>
		<dc:creator>miss morgan potts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=1760#comment-23079</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Though my current boyfriend is circumcised, I consider the procedure to be unnecessary and purely cosmetic. Just as female circumcision is rooted in tradition and outdated notions about sex (myths about masturbation, for example), so is male circumcision.

I&#039;ve been with both circumcised and uncircumcised men, and cosmetically neither is more appealing than the other so long as it&#039;s clean. Performance is far more important than whether or not the foreskin is intact.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though my current boyfriend is circumcised, I consider the procedure to be unnecessary and purely cosmetic. Just as female circumcision is rooted in tradition and outdated notions about sex (myths about masturbation, for example), so is male circumcision.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been with both circumcised and uncircumcised men, and cosmetically neither is more appealing than the other so long as it&#8217;s clean. Performance is far more important than whether or not the foreskin is intact.</p>
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