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	<title>Comments on: The Case for Marriage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/</link>
	<description>Men&#039;s Interests and Lifestyle</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 03:15:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-364834</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-364834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article!  It&#039;s nice to hear it from the men&#039;s side--I&#039;m trying to send the same message from the women&#039;s side.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article!  It&#8217;s nice to hear it from the men&#8217;s side&#8211;I&#8217;m trying to send the same message from the women&#8217;s side.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-283367</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-283367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*sigh* one more comment.

I will agree that any relationship, especially marriage requires commitment and means give and take.

In a successful relationship you should not think of it as being a 50:50 split, a 60:40 or anything else.  Are you willing to give 100 or all you can give to keep the relationship going?  Until you are willing to say yes, perhaps you should stay single.  

This comment is not because I think a marriage should be 100% sacrifice, but more because mine, theirs, or he vs. she is a defeatist way to look at a relationship.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*sigh* one more comment.</p>
<p>I will agree that any relationship, especially marriage requires commitment and means give and take.</p>
<p>In a successful relationship you should not think of it as being a 50:50 split, a 60:40 or anything else.  Are you willing to give 100 or all you can give to keep the relationship going?  Until you are willing to say yes, perhaps you should stay single.  </p>
<p>This comment is not because I think a marriage should be 100% sacrifice, but more because mine, theirs, or he vs. she is a defeatist way to look at a relationship.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-283363</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-283363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some general comments

If your wife nags you, this sounds like an opportunity for both of you to learn more about communication.  From personal experience, I didn&#039;t like being that nagging woman.  Because of my frustration around the whole situation and not knowing how to make things work I&#039;ve read a number of relationship and communication books to try and help things.  According to my current SO I do a decent job.

About the whole men get a bum rap in divorce, maybe.  I&#039;ve certainly heard of men who do not get custody.  However, I&#039;ve also heard about or know men who get 50% custody and if they pay anything it is child support due to differences in income between the partners, not alimony, not child support because you are not around, etc.  

About the money part of divorce, I am divorced and I freely admit I made a bad choice.  It was a rebound relationship and I stuck with him because he was nice to me, until eventually he wasn&#039;t.  I won&#039;t go into the what happened, but suffice to say I was in the stereotypical male position of being the breadwinner.  In the divorce he got half of all of our assets despite not working for 1.5 years of the 4 year marriage, half of my ore-marital Roth 401k, and asked for alimony.  The only reason he didn&#039;t get alimony is because the marriage was short.  The judge applied the rules the same to my case as she would have in reverse.

The reason the divorce rate is so high is because people CAN leave.  With feminism, women can get paid a decent wage for their labor and do a wide variety of jobs instead of just be a secretary.  This means there are probably less people trapped in marriages they don&#039;t want to be in, and those that last are probably happier.  On the other side, if you don&#039;t want as much divorce stripping one gender of their rights and ability to work is a great way to keep them chained to someone else in a marriage.

Despite this I think marriage is a great thing.  If two people love each other they should be able to be together.  And I&#039;m sure that there are benefits of marriage instead of just co-habitation.  Perhaps if you had a large enough sampling of truly committed individuals who chose not to get married you would see the benefits of marriage go away.  However, you have a partner, a friend, and someone to use as support in good times and bad in marriage.  If you are just together, the other person can leave.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some general comments</p>
<p>If your wife nags you, this sounds like an opportunity for both of you to learn more about communication.  From personal experience, I didn&#8217;t like being that nagging woman.  Because of my frustration around the whole situation and not knowing how to make things work I&#8217;ve read a number of relationship and communication books to try and help things.  According to my current SO I do a decent job.</p>
<p>About the whole men get a bum rap in divorce, maybe.  I&#8217;ve certainly heard of men who do not get custody.  However, I&#8217;ve also heard about or know men who get 50% custody and if they pay anything it is child support due to differences in income between the partners, not alimony, not child support because you are not around, etc.  </p>
<p>About the money part of divorce, I am divorced and I freely admit I made a bad choice.  It was a rebound relationship and I stuck with him because he was nice to me, until eventually he wasn&#8217;t.  I won&#8217;t go into the what happened, but suffice to say I was in the stereotypical male position of being the breadwinner.  In the divorce he got half of all of our assets despite not working for 1.5 years of the 4 year marriage, half of my ore-marital Roth 401k, and asked for alimony.  The only reason he didn&#8217;t get alimony is because the marriage was short.  The judge applied the rules the same to my case as she would have in reverse.</p>
<p>The reason the divorce rate is so high is because people CAN leave.  With feminism, women can get paid a decent wage for their labor and do a wide variety of jobs instead of just be a secretary.  This means there are probably less people trapped in marriages they don&#8217;t want to be in, and those that last are probably happier.  On the other side, if you don&#8217;t want as much divorce stripping one gender of their rights and ability to work is a great way to keep them chained to someone else in a marriage.</p>
<p>Despite this I think marriage is a great thing.  If two people love each other they should be able to be together.  And I&#8217;m sure that there are benefits of marriage instead of just co-habitation.  Perhaps if you had a large enough sampling of truly committed individuals who chose not to get married you would see the benefits of marriage go away.  However, you have a partner, a friend, and someone to use as support in good times and bad in marriage.  If you are just together, the other person can leave.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate (not McKay)</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-259563</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate (not McKay)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 08:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-259563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really appreciate this article! I think it was rare that my husband and I were both so excited about the idea of marriage---we&#039;re not from Christian or conservative families. A lot of our friends didn&#039;t feel they ever wanted to get married, but now (4 years later) they are lamenting that no one in our generation really takes marriage seriously or wants to get married before 35. 
However, I love being married! I honestly can&#039;t think of anything better than lifelong companionship and true partnership. Being married has made both of us better people, and I love him more every day. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really appreciate this article! I think it was rare that my husband and I were both so excited about the idea of marriage&#8212;we&#8217;re not from Christian or conservative families. A lot of our friends didn&#8217;t feel they ever wanted to get married, but now (4 years later) they are lamenting that no one in our generation really takes marriage seriously or wants to get married before 35.<br />
However, I love being married! I honestly can&#8217;t think of anything better than lifelong companionship and true partnership. Being married has made both of us better people, and I love him more every day. :)</p>
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		<title>By: SIRNUTSO</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-111302</link>
		<dc:creator>SIRNUTSO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-111302</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It took me 5 years of dating her and one year of not having her in my life to realize she was my best friend. We will have our big fat greek wedding next spring. Cheers!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It took me 5 years of dating her and one year of not having her in my life to realize she was my best friend. We will have our big fat greek wedding next spring. Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Reclaiming Marriage &#171; Married In Pearl</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-108458</link>
		<dc:creator>Reclaiming Marriage &#171; Married In Pearl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 04:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-108458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] you don&#8217;t have to take my word for it, Brett wrote a much more in-depth and statistically-rich article on the subject. Check it out, and consider your intentions. Marriage is an amazing thing! I&#8217;m [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you don&#8217;t have to take my word for it, Brett wrote a much more in-depth and statistically-rich article on the subject. Check it out, and consider your intentions. Marriage is an amazing thing! I&#8217;m [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mister-M</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-107905</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister-M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-107905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When the upside for men in this country ever come close to the downside for men, then come talk to me about what&#039;s great about marriage.

The risks of loss for the men, in terms of health, finances, the children, the assets, etc. are FAR greater than the alleged benefits.  And given the outrageous divorce rate and the fact that women initiate over 70% of all divorces - the ability for any man to achieve all of that greatness you report over a long period of time (a lifetime) is so infinitesimally small as to have odds worse than being struck by lightning.

While I believe that there are great women out there (because I believe I have finally found one), the sense of entitlement, empowerment, and the ability to pull the plug and TAKE TAKE TAKE TAKE with the force of government aiding and abetting them along the way, you would have to be out of your frigging mind or a huge &quot;risk taking personality&quot; to get married until society and the laws in divorce and family court change significantly.

http://www.thepsychoexwife.com/about-the-psycho-ex-wife/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the upside for men in this country ever come close to the downside for men, then come talk to me about what&#8217;s great about marriage.</p>
<p>The risks of loss for the men, in terms of health, finances, the children, the assets, etc. are FAR greater than the alleged benefits.  And given the outrageous divorce rate and the fact that women initiate over 70% of all divorces &#8211; the ability for any man to achieve all of that greatness you report over a long period of time (a lifetime) is so infinitesimally small as to have odds worse than being struck by lightning.</p>
<p>While I believe that there are great women out there (because I believe I have finally found one), the sense of entitlement, empowerment, and the ability to pull the plug and TAKE TAKE TAKE TAKE with the force of government aiding and abetting them along the way, you would have to be out of your frigging mind or a huge &#8220;risk taking personality&#8221; to get married until society and the laws in divorce and family court change significantly.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thepsychoexwife.com/about-the-psycho-ex-wife/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thepsychoexwife.com/about-the-psycho-ex-wife/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nathan W</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-105618</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 07:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-105618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Friends don&#039;t let friends get married.  My main argument against marriage is divorce.  How many men must get burned by divorce for us to realize what is going on.  Divorce holds no social stigma in American society.  Seventy percent of divorces are initiated by women (men and women cheat at the same rate).  Good luck getting custody of your son or daughter!  Men prepare to pay alimony and child support for these strong independent women.  Is it not obvious the courts are against men in America?  Legally fathers don&#039;t even have a say in whether a child lives or dies through an abortion.

Marriage does not guarantee any of these benefits.  However, it does guarantee that if things don&#039;t work out, you will foot the bill.

For the minority of people with good marriages, congratulations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friends don&#8217;t let friends get married.  My main argument against marriage is divorce.  How many men must get burned by divorce for us to realize what is going on.  Divorce holds no social stigma in American society.  Seventy percent of divorces are initiated by women (men and women cheat at the same rate).  Good luck getting custody of your son or daughter!  Men prepare to pay alimony and child support for these strong independent women.  Is it not obvious the courts are against men in America?  Legally fathers don&#8217;t even have a say in whether a child lives or dies through an abortion.</p>
<p>Marriage does not guarantee any of these benefits.  However, it does guarantee that if things don&#8217;t work out, you will foot the bill.</p>
<p>For the minority of people with good marriages, congratulations.</p>
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		<title>By: Comme des Garçons &#171; Birthday Bread Horse</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-105178</link>
		<dc:creator>Comme des Garçons &#171; Birthday Bread Horse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 04:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-105178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] (and men), the solecisms about feminism (it&#8217;s great but it makes men so confused!) and the relentless heteronormativity. And just like that, it&#8217;s a blog for men &#8212; straight cis men, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (and men), the solecisms about feminism (it&#8217;s great but it makes men so confused!) and the relentless heteronormativity. And just like that, it&#8217;s a blog for men &#8212; straight cis men, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/11/30/the-case-for-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-103762</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 10:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artofmanliness.com/?p=509#comment-103762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi

I think many of the comments here point out the danger of simply taking your own experiences and projecting them onto every other person.

I was married at the age of 20 and my wife was 22.  Nearly 21 years later we are still together and I would say that marriage has been (and still is) a very good thing for us.  We have 3 beautiful children, the eldest being 15 and on the verge of forging her own life.  We have provided a consistent environment for our children to grow up in, and I am proud of that.  I have a best friend who has stuck with me through the ups and downs of life and knows me better than anyone else.

Two specific points I would like to make in support of marriage:

1.  Children:  If you can manage it I think there is no better environment to raise a child in than a stable marriage.  This could also apply to other relationships, but I believe these are more likely to fail than marriages.  People that divorce and think that it will not affect their children are fooling themselves.

2.  What is the alternative?  People are social, and need relationships at lots of different levels to be healthy and happy.  Are we really saying that modern society has made us so selfish that we cannot establish a great relationship with one other person.  What hope for society if this is true?

I am not saying that stumbling into any old marriage is a recipe for happiness, but seeking out a successful marriage should be high on any man&#039;s list of priorities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>I think many of the comments here point out the danger of simply taking your own experiences and projecting them onto every other person.</p>
<p>I was married at the age of 20 and my wife was 22.  Nearly 21 years later we are still together and I would say that marriage has been (and still is) a very good thing for us.  We have 3 beautiful children, the eldest being 15 and on the verge of forging her own life.  We have provided a consistent environment for our children to grow up in, and I am proud of that.  I have a best friend who has stuck with me through the ups and downs of life and knows me better than anyone else.</p>
<p>Two specific points I would like to make in support of marriage:</p>
<p>1.  Children:  If you can manage it I think there is no better environment to raise a child in than a stable marriage.  This could also apply to other relationships, but I believe these are more likely to fail than marriages.  People that divorce and think that it will not affect their children are fooling themselves.</p>
<p>2.  What is the alternative?  People are social, and need relationships at lots of different levels to be healthy and happy.  Are we really saying that modern society has made us so selfish that we cannot establish a great relationship with one other person.  What hope for society if this is true?</p>
<p>I am not saying that stumbling into any old marriage is a recipe for happiness, but seeking out a successful marriage should be high on any man&#8217;s list of priorities.</p>
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